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The Toranado Precision Geared 1.75mm Extruder - v1.1

by Toranado3D, published

The Toranado Precision Geared 1.75mm Extruder - v1.1 by Toranado3D Jan 5, 2016

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Summary

Update 5-17-2016 - The Version 1.2 design is going to be delayed a few more weeks, as I am resolving issues with the 30mm-40mm airflow. I'm sorry about the delay, but I want all aspects of this new design to be thoroughly tested before I release it.

Update 5-5-2016 - Several Makers have tried to use Drive gears other than the one I spec'd from Ultibot. Unless you can find a drive gear that has the same effective diameter, I do not recommend using it - as the tangent point on the bearing will not apply force in the proper area on the drive gear. It is essential your bearing align well to the drive gear. I am currently looking for ways to include proper drive gears in future kits.


V1.1 Printing @ 85mm/sec and 500mm/s^2 default acceleration


Hardware Kits - v1.1 Tornado Kits

v1.1 - Both Toranado Kits

v1.1 Gear and Shaft Kit Only

v1.1 Fastener Kit Only

Expect 4-7 days for handling on all kit orders as I continually replenish stock


The Toranado Precision Geared 1.75mm Extruder - Current Build v1.1

Intro

Why the Toranado?

v1.1 Build Instructions

e_steps_per_mm Gear Calculation

  • Significantly lighter than NEMA-17 geared Extruders
  • All-in-one
  • Precision Geared
  • Uses Ultibot's High Performance MK7 Drive Gear
  • Modular Design - All parts are easily printable without structure and in your material of choice (PLA/ABS/PETG).
  • Designed for use with E3Dv6 1.75mm Universal
  • Attractive (like the one who designed it*).

*Note: There is still some minor discussion as to the validity of the designer being attractive.


AVAILABLE TORANADO X-CARRIAGE MOUNTS

Also compatible with i3 Rework and typical 23x23mm x-carriage hole patterns.


Update 4/6/2016 - Version 1.1 of the Toranado is Released! This update includes:

  • An all-metal Toranado Gear-Set. The 94T Precision Main Gear is now made in the USA and precision cut from 2010 aluminum. It is now a 1-piece solution with an integrated hub with a 5mm bore - perfectly sized for the 50mm precision shaft and made to eliminate gear wobble. The gears are precision cut in the United States with a "total composite error and TIR of .003" or less."

  • All of the .STL files are unchanged except the main gear covers. A new .STL file for the aluminum gear tpge-v1.1-gearcover.stl replaces the v1.0 gear cover .STLs. Using the new aluminum gear also eliminates the need to use the tpge-spacer-wprintpad.stl, so it has been moved to the legacy zip file.

  • New v1.1 build instructions are available here

  • All legacy v1.0 files and build instructions are available here

  • Once v1.2 is complete, most of this technology will be integrated to the ongoing Toranado Dual Extruder design.

How I Designed This

I met a guy named Big Cooter, and he pushed me over a cliff.

Bill of Material

Fasteners, Washers, Nuts, Springs and PTFE Tubing

NOTE: All of these items are included in the Toranado Precision Geared Extruder Fastener Kit - v1.1

(3x) M3x14 Button-Head Machine Screw
(1x) M3x22 Button-Head Machine Screw
(4x) M3x30 Button-Head Machine Screw
(2x) M3x5 Self-Tapping Screw
(3x) M3x14 or #4-20 x 5/8" Self-Tapping Screw
(12x) M3x18 or #4-20 x 3/4" Self-Tapping Screw
(8x) M3 Stainless Steel Washer
(9x) M3 PTFE Heat- Isolation Washer
(5x) M3x4mm Brass Knurl Nuts
(2x) M3 Nyloc Nut
(1x) PTFE Tubing 4mmOD 1.8mmID - 64mm length
(3x) PTFE Tubing 5mmOD 3mmID - 8.25mm length
(2x) Compression Springs - Available in Toranado Fastener Kit


Precision Gearing and Shafting

NOTE: All of these items are included in the Toranado Precision Geared Extruder Gear and Shaft Kit

(1x) 94T 48P Aluminum Main Gear
(1x) 19T 48P Steel Motor Pinion Gear
(1x) 5mm Stainless Steel Precision Shaft - 50mm Length - Available in Precision Gear and Shaft Kit
(1x) 5mm Stainless Steel Precision Shaft - 25mm Length - Available in Precision Gear and Shaft Kit


Hardware

(1x) e3dv6 1.75mm Universal Hot End - Full Kit
(1x) NEMA-14 Stepper Motor - 28mm length
(1x) 40x40x10mm 12vdc Bed-Cooling Fan
(1x) Ultibot MK7 1.75mm Drive Gear
(1x) 5mm Shaft Collar w/ Set Screw, Optionally you can use tpge-shaftcollar.stl with an M3x3 set screw.
(3x) 5x16x5 625zz Radial Bearings

Print Settings

.STL files and recommended print settings (with a 0.4mm nozzle)

  • tpge-extruderbase.stl: 4 Perimeters, 0.2mm layers, 25% infill
  • tpge-gearprotector.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.2mm layers, 21% infill
  • tpge-40mmfanduct-wprintpad.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.2mm layers, 21% infill
  • tpge-clamp-hotend.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.2mm layers, 21% infill
  • tpge-idler-wprintpad.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.2mm layers, 25% infill
  • tpge-decorationcover.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.15mm layers, 21% infill
  • tpge-smallgearcover.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.2mm layers, 21% infill
  • tpge-bearingcover.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.2mm layers, 21% infill
  • tpge-idler-tensioner.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.15mm layers, 21% infill
  • tpge-fancover-40mm.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.15mm layers, 21% infill
  • tpge-fancover-30mm.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.15mm layers, 21% infill
  • tpge-v1.1-gearcover.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.15mm layers, 21% infill

Technical Data

Fine Tuning Your Toranado Extruder


The NEMA-14 Stepper Motor

The motor I have spec'd is rated at 500mA, and even at the rated voltage NEMA14's run hot - be sure not to exceed the rated voltage. Also, You MUST follow Item #9 of the build instructions as well - isolating the motor heat from the extruder mount is critical.

How to set the NEMA-14 properly For the popular RAMPS 1.4 setups:

DRV8825 1/32 stepper - you should take a DC voltage measurement exactly like this. To properly set the motor current, you should adjust your potentiometer to get the reference voltage as close to 0.25V as possible. 0.25V = 500mA (0.5A) to the motor. (Any VREF measurement between 0.24-0.26 should work fine). Formula: Measured VREF x 2 = Motor Current

Pololou A4988 Driver - measure to voltage exactly like this. If you are using drivers from Pololou - to properly set the motor current, you should adjust your potentiometer to get the reference voltage as close to 0.2V as possible. 0.2V = 500mA to the motor. (Any setting between 0.19-0.21 should work fine). Formula: Measured VREF x 2.5 = Motor Current.

NOTE: If you are using certain Chinese clones of the A4988 Driver, the formula is different. See This Post about adjusting your voltage setting on the stepper driver, depending on the type of A4988 that you have.

NEMA-14 WIRING to RAMPS1.4 w Ardino Mega 2560

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Hello,

I m on my way to build this mini purse I3 version : http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1023641

Can we expect a bowden version of the tornado concept ?

mini 3D printer (3Dtje)
by 3Dtje

I just had to replace the extruder nozzle on this thing. That could be a bit easier... :-)

May 18, 2016 - Modified May 18, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to mperdue

LOL. Yes it is not as easy as it should be. That is precisely why I am designing the next version, as that was the issue I sought to fix, and it has been definitively dealt with.

Glad to hear it. :-)

what is the bltouch offset settings x,y,z?

I'm using X = 25.0, Y = 0.0, Z = -2.5. The X and Y should be good for you but the Z will almost certainly need to change.

May 17, 2016 - Modified May 17, 2016
jared248371 - in reply to mperdue

Is there any type of quality loss of any sort when operating with the BLTouch since the z axis would be in constant movement as well?

May 17, 2016 - Modified May 17, 2016
mperdue - in reply to jared248371

Edit of my original replay. I misunderstood the question at first. The movement in the Z axis is very small unless the bed if really out of level. I haven't really noticed any problems with this setup.

This comment has been deleted.

My birthday came and went and no new version... dang... :-)

I have seen some of the prototyped features ... it's going to be very awesome!!! Some people will be well served by V1.1 ... and others will certainly want the new version, in order to have features previously only available on high end commercial machines.

The features he has mentioned here make me want the coming version but you are correct that v1.1 is nice as it is.

May 11, 2016 - Modified May 11, 2016

Done and very pleased with the result. Tip: buy the hardware kit!! I'm pretty resourceful with a shop full of 20 years of packratting...but I sprung for the extra hw kit and it made the whole process 10x more pleasureable.

I'm testing my printer at higher speeds today. I've kicked the X/Y default speed up to 130mm/sec and the Toranado is keeping up nicely.

I would love too se a movie of it printing that fast!

http://indyrockets.org/junk/130mm_sec.m4v

Hatchbox PLA
Part size: 88mm x 88mm
Bed Heat: 55C
Extruder Heat: 230C
Acceleration: 700mm
Jerk: 10.

That is just awesome! What printer do you have?

It's a home built machine that started out as a Wilson 2 and morphed into something different. It runs Marlin firmware. Azteeeg X3 Pro controller. 10mm guide rods on the X and Z axes and 12mm rods on the Y. 300mm x 400mm x 250mm build area.

Very nice. I thought that looked like a Wilson... :P I have a gen1 myself.

I would really like to see a video of your Toranado printing at this speed, is the quality of the printed part still perfect?
Regards

2020 rail compatible carriage here.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1543378

TS 2020 Rail Carriage for Toranado, Prusa i3 Attachments

awesome 2040 in the works?

May 6, 2016 - Modified May 6, 2016
timeshell - in reply to KaTZWorld

Sure is.

Regarding the BLTouch mount, I realise that once it is initially set right no physical adjustments are required.
I only concern is that there is no adjustment to take into account the slight height differences of the nozzle/hotend lengths. Genuine E3D might be OK but what about the various clones. I would ne interested in hearing your views.

I'm using a e3D v6 clone and had to shave about 1mm off the BLTouch mount to get a workable range of Z offset height adjustments. I suppose there could be differences due to different printer Z step calibrations (or miscalibrations!) that could change the final mounting height of the BLTouch. Once I made my minor adjustments with a Dremel and cutoff wheel, I was ready to go!

Yeah, there must be a difference. I have a genuine E3D and have more than enough pin with the stock setup. Glad to hear it is working for ya!

I'm using a genuine E3D and I had to make an adjustment to mine. I modified the STL to lower the BLTouch by 1mm.

What application/software did you used to modify the SLT? If you don't mind me asking?

I use Shade 3D and Cheetah 3D for my design work. I don't remember which one I actually used but either is capable of doing it.

I made the first print today.... I was expecting the worst of it printing, everything I built up including the 3d printer that taken me months and most of it is waiting for parts (lost in post). I guess you might do the same, the cube test came out a cube, I am still gobsmack. Well done, Photo later.

May 3, 2016 - Modified May 3, 2016

I've made a 3 mm filament version of this extruder. I've put it on MAKES. Really few modifications are requiered and work really good, with only an increase of weight of 40g due to the bigger NEMA-14 motor I've used. Thanks for this incredible extruder :-)

May 3, 2016 - Modified May 4, 2016
armenio - in reply to armenio

After some exhaustive tests is not working propely. Forget it by now :-(

Well, it might work w larger nozzle sizes, but driving 3mm filament through a 0.4 or 0.5 nozzle is probably not optimal. What drive gear are you using? Remember it needs to have a very similar effective diameter for the pulley to work.

I'm working on it, may be the problem is there. I'm using a MK7 for 3 mm filament. I measure everything and it should work. I think there are problems with the PLA pieces. They bled with heat.

I'm finally putting together my v1.0 TPGE. How critical are the second set of PTFE washers and the metal washer by the NEMA-14 in step 9 of the instructions? The bolts I have (from the parts kit) aren't quite long enough to get a good amount of threads in the stepper motor. If I remove those two washers (again, one PTFE and one metal), it fits fine. I still have a PTFE washer on both sides of the printed part.

I printed my parts using PETG, for what it's worth.

Thanks!

You will likely be OK, but I have not tested it.

Thanks. Once I set the driver to the right voltage, the NEMA-14 seems to run quite cool.

Now if only I could get the E3D fan to be quiet...thinking about a mod to use a 40mm fan instead.

HI,
Noticed the release date for the 1.2 version was no longer mentioned on the details page.
Does this mean things are getting pushed out indefinitely until you finish figuring out the last of the details? :(

Sometime even the smallest change in a design require the entire project rewiew, is not that easy i guess (but i'm not a designer, so is just a comment from an ignorant man :-) )
i'm sure that Wes will deliver a really useful change in the Toranado, looking forward to see whats in the pot....

I'm close.

I think its worth a few more days of waiting.

Wes

Take all the time you need.

what mperdue said, was really trying to figure out if I wanted to go for a 1.1 and then upgrade later if the 1.2 design needed time to get it nailed.

Damn! My "clamp hotend" and "idle tensioner" is not keeping enough pressure on the filament to be feeded. What can possibly be wrong?! Almost done and then this problem :(

It doesn't take a ton of force onto the filament for the MK7 to drive it. Be sure the springs are not snagged on the M3 threads of the bolts they are on. Be sure you did not over-compress your springs.... and keep me posted.

For me it actually requires alot of manual force on the "idle tensioner" to get it flowing. I dont know why? Will send u a picture of the springs once i get home from work.

Check carefully the MK7 teeth. Be sure it is perfectly aligned to the hole, tightened to the shaft and if there is any plastic debris in the drive gear, clean it w a toothbrush or light wire brush..

I'm one of the lucky ones that Wes built one of the early ones for. I've got it mounted on my printer, but as Wes told me that darn old 18mm proximity sensor just looked horrible next to his beauty (well, not exactly his words, but I got his meaning...) Anyway, I went and ordered one of the bl Touch probes and it should be in this week when I get back into town.

Now my only real question is how to hook this all up to my Fastbot BBP 1S control boards. I'm not sure which stepper drivers are built into the board (its not a ramps 1.4, but an all-in-one), so I'm going to take it slow and maybe someone here has "gone where I have not before" (to horribly butcher a phrase) So I'll get the final mechanics swapped over to the new probe and route the cables and the display on my SWEET Micro XT PC case (I made a bezel and some additiional bits and posted them -- look for Fastbot BBP 1s Bezel by me for the STL files.)

I'll post more when I'm ready to make that final leap

Roger,

We need to meet up so I can see your actual setup. Maybe we can do it one of these evenings after work.

Blessings,

Wes

If it has standard servo support, thats how you set it up with the servo angles of 10 and 90 degrees. It has a processor hidden in the case that interprets the pwm pulses to extend and retract the probe. It should be easy to setup if youve ever setup a servo engaged probe before.

No v1.2 yet... Bummer...

LOL! This video made me laugh :)

I am also anxiously awaiting v1.2 as well as looking forward to seeing the dual extruder get some love :D

Take your time. There's no need to rush your work. And, BTW, this was very definitely a compliment.

I know. :)

So, consider my poor wife. You know that when she married me 20+ years ago she would not have imagined my evenings being consumed with a 40mm fan duct... and the front of our home filled with Hatchbox PLA. She probably had things working a tad differently in her mind.

Glad the video made you laugh.

This comment has been deleted.

Great clip. Just take comfort in the fact People make comments about not having the next version because they like it so much they can't wait. So it's a complement. :-) F5, F5, F5, F5 lol

Finaly i had time to start this build, and i get stuck right away. My shaft seems to long? What to do?
https://imgur.com/a/J18Fz

Here I whipped up a Nema 14 plate you can print as a shim. Just lay it flat on your bed and scale the thickness to whatever you need. Make sure you unlock your scaling so only the thickness changes. I built it to be 3mm thick as is.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1524245

Nema 14 Plate

Or even easier just put some shims between the motor and where it attaches and use longer screws to mount it. That will slide the shaft out a bit and make it fit.

Just remove the small gear cover and carry on finish the build, then ask the designer to post a modified file with a pass thru hole for the longer shaft if he is happy to do that, as i had the same problem with a new motor (Wantay Motor) very good quality but longer shaft.

Okey! Many thanks!

Hi
I have a problem making the toranado work: everything is fine except for the speed of the filament extrusion, it's too slow to print. I know that there is the 902steps/mm value but i dunno where to set it. I use repetier. Thank you

maybe i have to remove a pin from M3 to let the board work with 1/8 steps instead of 1/16?

First make sure what type of stepper you have, and it's max steps. (I made this mistake, I had 1/16 and needed 1/32) Remember, Toranado is designed for 1/32 steps, so adjust your stepping accordingly. IE: I has the 1/16 so I had to double the steps when I upgraded to 1/32 in my firmware. Also, after you know what stepper drivers you have double check the jumpers on your ramps board under the stepper drivers themselves. Use this for reference: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0627/7013/files/NARTimage030_grande.png?6640975367770439408
One more thing, if you upgrade from 1/16 to 1/32 steppers note the orientation when installing the steppers, they are different!

I had 1/16 so at first i removed one to 1/8 but still bad result so i tried removing another to 1/4 and now it prints great

I am very pleased with the upgrade to 1/32 steppers plus it's a cheap upgrade.

I see that your parts kit is sold out. Are you going to be listing any more?

"Sold Out, More Shipping 4-24-2016"

I can't believe I missed that.... >.<

The last parts arrived today so i will post my make soon, i've done a little modification to mount a proximity sensor instead of a touch sensor.

Looking forward to seeing it.

Can this print ABS? Due to how the cooling fan is directed, I realized (As I was printing off parts) Most of the air cooling the the hotend will have no choice but to be directed down to the print...this could be bad for ABS.

I almost exclusively print abs with no issues, the air that directs down is quite warm and doesnt cause any issues for me, but ymmv

All of the airflow concerns are addressed in the v1.2 release. ALL of the 30mm airflow is captured and vented away from the print-bed with little restriction. Look for it soon.

Sooo....just out of curiosity will you guys be selling those all in one hardware kits on Ebay when the next version comes out? Because I'm excited....

Just printed your extruder and appreciate the elegance of your design. Well done TORANADO3D

Thank you. Looking forward to you positing your MAKE.

One of the brass threaded inserts has pulled loose on my TPGE causing the filament to slip so I plan to print a new base part to fix that. I'm reluctant to do too much repair while waiting for V1.2 to be released. Does anyone know if the base part that has the threaded inserts changes on V1.2? If not, I'll go ahead and print one.

Was it a brass insert that pulled loose on the hotend or was it one on the carriage? The extruder base for the v1.2 is a new part that will need printed.

It's the insert on the right (as viewed from the front) that holds the top of the extruder in place. I have a bag of the inserts but the hole is now too big to get it to hold in place. I was hoping to put things off till V1.2 was available to print but I guess I'll need to fix the existing one.

I am sorry (and frustrated) that your insert pulled out. Did you print your extruder base with more perimeters per the printing instructions? Also, you don't need to apply a ton of torque to hold the stuff together, just get it nice and snug. I am looking at better mounting options for v1.2 - thank you for sharing this - it helps me work on improvements.

I believe that I followed the instructions but anything is possible. I'll certainly be sure to follow them precisely this time around. Looking forward to the improvements.

More perimeters create a thicker wall to melt the brass insert into, so that the insert does not end up breaking out into the infill. However, I still need to explore the best possible mounting options, preventing the insert from pulling out at all.

New part printed and installed. Up and running again. :-)

Has anyone tried Toranado with E3D-v6 Volcano or is this design compatible with it?

You will probably also lose the ability to use the bltouch without a little bit of modification to lower it.

Apr 19, 2016 - Modified Apr 19, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to rodelvalle

It will work fine.. however there is one caveat - while the volacno hotend will fit in the housing provided, it protrudes closer to the print bed, and away from the fan duct a bit. I would worry a bit about the 40mm fan air not being close enough to the print surface. Hopefully when the next version is released and this framework is opened up for remixes, someone will modify the fan shroud. to work well with the volcano setup.

Hi Wesley, I have to say, I have made myself a fan guard using 123Design (great stuff) I only been on 123Design since January and learnt a lot. I guess you want to see it first before I put it on thingiverse. I WON'T put it on for the same symbol as yours but 120mm, if you want the .stl off me to see it or it is ok to put it on and tell me after.

Can i print this in PLA? Thanks!

yes.

"Modular Design - All parts are easily printable without structure and in your material of choice (PLA/ABS/PETG)."

What you want to print in Pla??

PLA is the only material i can print perfectly!

A point guys about the torque...
The torque normally declared is the "holding torque" which is absolutely useless as we do need the "turning torque" and this is much less.
so a 20 oz torque is the holding torque when the motor is stopped and still under current, the running torque can be even a 30% less on a poor quality motor(which is what we usually get from china).
Just to make the point.... :-)

I have no real data to offer on motor comparisons - I am happy w the motor I spec'd tho. :)

And i totally agree with you, was just to make the point as it seems that they are not sure about your spec..... :-))

I totally respect your specs. It's the motor that you have used and works great for you. Just like to look at other options for those of us with free 2 day prime shipping is all. I am ordering the ones you linked :-)

Hi, I am almost done assembling my TPGE. The only thing I am waiting on is the stepper motor. Would this motor work?

http://www.amazon.com/Motor-1-8deg-Bipolar-35x35x26mm-4-wire/dp/B00PNEPQ8E?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01

I have this one in hand. The one you recommend is still several days out. I am installing this on a Robo R1.

I am also planning to upgrade the Y threaded rods at the same time to 8mm lead screws.

Thanks for this awesome design.

Apr 18, 2016 - Modified Apr 18, 2016
mperdue - in reply to goldpnnr

That's the motor I'm using. It has been working well for me. I haver had no overheating problems with it and it seems to have plenty of power for PLA and ABS.

I was wondering that too. It looks very similar. It has a bit more torque. (20oz vs14oz) and seems to be the same weight and the steps are the same. Looking forward to the answer

14/20 oz are both good, the only problem with the 14 can be in the retraction acceleration rate if is too high(loosing steps) but nothing more…. That's it.
Great extruder !!

Apr 18, 2016 - Modified Apr 18, 2016
goldpnnr - in reply to merlin201314

A 17oz torque unit is the one recommended for the TPGE by the designer.

Gents,

I spec'd the motor I did quite simply because at the time it was the highest-torque one that I knew of that was also the length that I was targeting.

As I began testing it, aside from the heat it generates at the rated voltage, it preformed admirably. So, I have not really needed to look into another motor.

Any NEMA-14 will mount to the Tornado - but the longer ones will stick out past the decoration cover, making it less appealing (IMO).

Feel free to try any motor you;d like, just be sure it is properly set at the rated voltage.

Apr 17, 2016 - Modified Apr 17, 2016

I finally got mine up and running, and could not be more pleased. I have been looking for a geared extruder for a long time to replace my crappy clone direct drive unit that came with the printer. I'm glad I was so picky and waited until I found this one.

I did source all the parts myself. What a pain. Should have just bought the kit.

My hobby shop didn't have the exact big gear, so instead of buying the aluminum hub, I printed one and used a lock collor pressed into the printed hub with a longer set screw to lock it all together. It was extra work, but it works well, and I saved a whopping four bucks!

So thanks for a great design, and if anyone is planning on using a clone e3d v6, don't. I think that is one of the commandments or something. Though shall not put a clone in this work of art.

I have a genuine e3Dv6 on mine as well. I smiled when I read this. The aluminum gears that I'm now offering are extraordinarily true to the shaft, and are inspecting between .001" and .002" TIR (Outstanding).

Looking forward to seeing more makes!

is there a 3mm version

I have never tested a 3mm filament in this extruder, and am unsure as to the NEMA14 capabilities w it.

Apr 13, 2016 - Modified Apr 13, 2016

Wes, I can't tell you how much I enjoy your Toranado and the engineering behind it. This is such a well thought out design and the associated documentation is top-notch!
I look forward to posting pics of mine once I get the BLTouch sorted out and wiring organized. The BLTouch is giving me fits; have you got yours working yet? I've been reading everything I can on how to setup my configuration.h file, but nothing's worked yet. : (
I'm looking forward to seeing your v2 soon!

Oh, a bit of advise for those of you considering sourcing the hardware yourselves, take it from me, BUY THE KIT! Even though I live in an area with lots of access to fasteners, I spent a LOT of time running all over and ordering online for the correct parts. Wish I'd waited for the parts to come available and ordered from Wes.

what firmware are you running? I have it running very reliably and may be able to help.

You treat the BLTouch the same as you would a standard servo probe. you just need to figure out the probe angle values for 90, 10, 120 and 160 degrees to get it working in repetier. for marlin it is much easier.

Sniffle - I sincerely appreciate you offering help - I also have yet to get my BL Touch up and running. (Mostly because my 0.2mm feeler gauge and a slight adjustment every 15-20 prints is working very well for me).

Yeah, i completely understand. I have 2 small kids and have a hard time doing anything precise with a kid hanging on my arm. So its a must for me. I may do a simple writeup if i have the time for you to add to your documentation for the BLTouch whem setting up marlin. I wouldnt be much good to you setting it up on repetier

Oh i have a black and gold 1.1 that will be finished soon that ill be posting a make of. I like it better than the 1.0 looks wise and the gear will last longer than the acetal. Good job on the new design.

The first BLTouch that I received was defective. I received a replacement yesterday that works perfectly. My only issue is the offset from the probe to the extruder tip is very small. I wish the mount on the TPGE had been lowered .5mm to 1mm. I may have to see if I an do that.

Not that it really matters but my offset is -1.5mm

I'd be very happy if mine were 1.5mm I'm currently set at .02mm. Obviously that's not a lot of room to work with.

I seem to be in a similar situation; I was working with .01mm last night. I even tried a short piece of heat shrink tubing on the end of the pin as an extension, since lowering the probe isn't an option.

I got tired of messing with it so I loaded the STL file and cut off one millimeter of the top of the BLTouch mounting bracket. I'm pretty close to a -1.0 Z offset now. :-)

I'm working on Marlin 1.1.0-RC3, trying to get it configured for BLTouch. I made changes as per Anthony Quayle's guide (R3), but then I couldn't it to compile in Arduino. I've never used any type of auto leveling before, so am a bit of a newb at this!

Apr 16, 2016 - Modified Apr 16, 2016
sniffle - in reply to Augermeister

hmm... I wonder not that i think you can really mount it differently but do you think you have your mounted differently than mine?

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d130/tourach23/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/20160323_182647.jpg

I'm about to setup and install another one, over the course of the next week, so I may report back the same problem.

edit:
The way I test my offset to get it close before I fine tune with the bottom layer of a print, is to run a g28 then a g29 then a G1 X(half bed width) Y(half bed length) Z0

so that I can see just where the nozzle is going to end up

Any chance of getting a 3mm version of this epically awesome extruder?

Rykos - in reply to Rykos

Never mind... I read down far enough to get my answer o_o

printed all my parts - just waiting for my hardware package to arrive in the UK :-)

I made a Toranado by using the carbon fiber PLA as the main body, and the surface is awesome!
http://www.thingiverse.com/make:209450

The Toranado Precision Geared 1.75mm Extruder - v1.1
by LeoHou

Looks like some competition just entered the market...

http://e3d-online.com/Titan-Extruder

I think Toranado still wins for looks and a more complete package with cooling and smaller motor.

It has nothing to compare to the Toranado, they are completely different extruders, and is still a nema 17 size, so a different extruder but never the less heavy.
Toranado is light and still efficient even if the gear ratio is 4.89:1.
The goal was to design a small extruder house made and is achieved......
If you produce the toranado in an industrial scale with molded plastic and some small optimizations it will look amazing with nothing like that on the market for now.
This is my modest opinion.

I completely agree! Still, it is curious how similar most of the design elements are to the Toranado...

There is no doubt E3D has had this in the works long before I started working on the Toranado in Jan/Feb (Plastic molded parts take awhile to tool, etc).

Gearing a higher torque NEMA 17 at 3:1 will certainly generate adequate torque.

Gearing a NEMA 14 at almost 5:1 will also do the same.

Main difference (besides looks) is that NEMA 14 motors are a lot lighter than NEMA 17s. This is was a major reason I went w NEMA 14s. The lightweight motor was very very appealing.

the e3d one doesn't have the integrated fan ducting either - one of the reasons I like the toranado. Fed up with clumping great fan ducting hanging off the extruder - toranado is much more compact and neater (and will give me back about 20mm of usable x axis!)

Yes. So far, after using my own Toranado for 3+ months... I have been very happy with the NEMA-14 (actually lightweight) combined with the precision gears. My prints are clean and accurate.

JMG1971 - There are always cost/benefits to design considerations. And the 40mm fan duct was a real challenge to make that compact - but I was happy with what I was able to do in tucking it behind the extruder.

That being said the downside to this was trying to get all of the wiring sorted out. It is nice and neat looking, tightly integrated and surrounds the nozzle well, but it is not easy to swap out nozzles or hotends - and the wiring is tight, no doubt. Many have justly noted this as room for improvement.

All of this I have solved in v1.2.

I'm confident that it will be a very desirable upgrade that current Toranado users will sincerely appreciate and come to see the benefit of. The improved 30mm airflow and fan ducting between the 30 and 40, as well as the ability to instantly swap a nozzle or hotend without disturbing the system wiring is going to be a great benefit - and all of this while using all of the same gears, motors, and hotends, etc. as the v1.0 and v1.1.

It's been a fun design challenge for sure.

I didn't realise there was a v1.2 forthcoming.... any news on when that'll be available?

Per my last update:

"I am now targeting April 19th thru the 25th for a major revision (v1.2) of the Tornado .STLs. The main differences between v1.1 and v1.2 will be serviceability (ease of cleaning and swapping nozzles), and improvements to the venting for the 30mm heatsink airflow. There will be no changes to the gearset in future revisions.

Once v1.2 is complete, most of this technology will be integrated to the ongoing Tornado Dual Extruder design."

I'm most likely going to get a Monoprice Maker Select, and I'm wondering if the Tornado Extruder will work with the Maker Select?

It will so long as the vertical rod spacing is built on an i3 platform (It looks like it is).

Apr 9, 2016 - Modified Apr 10, 2016

Thanks a bunch! Say if you ever think about releasing a version 2 of the Tornado you should make it so that it can hold a small blower fan to cool the prints instead of the 40mm fan. Also maybe a ring around the bottom to add LED lights to it too. Those mods would be awesome!

$19.99 for the gears and $14.99 for shipping to Sweden. I think that's to much to pay for the shipping.

Me too. If I was in China, than I could ePacket to you for $1.99 through the UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE. However, our own postal service won't allow us to ship from the USA at a discounted rate. As of right now, I have little other options for shipping worldwide.

Its odd to me how much trade is imbalanced toward Chinese shippers...

On top of that add even the import charge, it will cost you more than the entire lot........
Is not Toranado fault, just the bloody wrong system........
just taxes and that's that!!

It currently costs me more money to ship from Michigan to Ohio... than it does for a Chinese shipper to ship globally (and do so using OUR postal service). Now you know why so many people are leaning toward Donald Trump in 2016, he's been talking about this for awhile ;)

Hi, i'm very interrested to buy the complet kit, maybe the price to ship in France is very abuse. Half price of the kit!! You don't have the main gear and pinion gear in printing files?

Sorry for my bad english.

Hi, Have a 1.0 complete gear and hardware kit on the way. Will this have what we need for a 1.2 build?

I am trying to use as many of the same fasteners as possible, and it will be very close. So far, v1.2 will require a couple of small inexpensive connectors that are not yet available in the kits.

Every major item will drop right in (fans, motors, hotend, gears, etc.)

Are you shipping to EU? Are you planning on uploading the source files? I would like to mount an IR probe on it

The current plan is that when 1.2 is released, I am offering the source files for 1.1 and allowing remixing of it.

I will do the same for subsequent versions of this and the dual.

Yes, I ship worldwide.

dejven - in reply to s0me

Yes, and read the description. They say that they will be releasing it later this month!

s0me - in reply to dejven

I read the description. Where exactly have you read about what I'm asking? Better let the designer respond.

Feels kinda unneccesary to drill the gear for just that piece of plastic.
Is it only for the looks or is it for some use?

Apr 7, 2016 - Modified Apr 7, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to dejven

Looks only, not necessary for function, However, having the plastic gear over makes it easier to manually feed the filament.

I see. I was only a bit afraid of drilling it. Should i be worried or is it really easy? I see four holes but only three beeing used. Why?

I'm actually considering pre-drilling the holes before I send them.

oh PLEASE do. I can even pay some extra for it i think. I would hate to mess something up and having to order another one.

4th hole is access to motor mount. Just line up the template using the 5mm shaft, Mark and drill slowly. Aluminum drills fairly easy.

Looking at the Nema 14 motors you linked and wondering which oz of torque are you getting for these? Also is it ok to grind a small flat spot on the 5mm rod to give the gear set screw something to grip?

I'm not sure what I am getting after the gear differential. We had planned to do pull tests on them, but are still yet to do so. The Pololou Motors already come with a flat on the shaft, at least all three that I have bought do.

The torque differential you get after the gear reduction is only based and increased between the main gear diameter and the hobbed pulley diameter(radius leverage), then you have to add the gear reduction factor on top of that, so a 14/20 oz stepper motor is more than enough to pull everything with no problem.

right but when you go to the Pololou website the Nema 14's have a drop down with various torques. Which one are you buying?

Also I was referring to the straight piece of 5mm rod that goes through the big gear and MK7 Drive gear

You forget to upload the drill template or is it coming later?

I forgot it. Just uploaded, thank you for the reminder.

Will the v1.1 hardware work with v1.2? This is exhausting.

I'm going to cancel your order.. give me a few moments to get all of the new kits up.. and properly priced. Sorry, I was updating the links when you ordered...

Ordered again. The 19T gear I had originally will still work, correct?

Yes. It is identical between v1.0 and v1.1

Apr 6, 2016 - Modified Apr 6, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to krwynn

Yes. All gears (regardless of which ones you have), motors, hotends, fans etc - all work and are drop-in replacements.

I ordered everything again. Hopefully having 2 sets will be all I need for the dual extruder. Already have several NEMA's and E3D's laying around I haven't used yet. Thanks.

I am going to refund you the extra shipping, as all will fit in one package.

You're a gem. If you want, leave the extra shipping and just throw in some extra screws and brass fittings if you want. Either way, what ever is easiest for you.

This comment has been deleted.
Apr 6, 2016 - Modified Apr 6, 2016

OH.... MY.... GOD!!!

I have been waiting for the 1.1 for a couple of days now. Finally i ordered the parts needed. Can u reply to my order-message about me ordering the right two packages? Thanks so much for the contribution!

I'm going to cancel your order.. give me a few moments to get all of the new kits up.. and properly priced. Sorry, I was updating the links when you ordered...

Just replied.

This comment has been deleted.
Apr 5, 2016 - Modified Apr 5, 2016

I was a happy guy,
A happy life with my simple extruders for my printers...........
THEN!!!!!! One day i had the bad idea to look at the Toranado project, That's when my life changed.
Now i'm spending all my time thinking how i can make my printers looks better to match the Toranado style!!!
My wife is unhappy, my Dog is unhappy, i'm leaving back my job.... Basically a NIGHTMARE!!
Toranado, the enemy of the calm and relaxing life..
Good luck to all of you if you decide to print the next version. (i'll do that anyway).

Hello,

I have to admit thaat your extruder is the most complete I've seen so far.

I ordered a BLTouch sensor, and would definitely love trying it with a Toranado.

Too bad I can't print it, and ordering one printed would cost me too much...

Any plan on selling complete kit ?

Apr 5, 2016 - Modified Apr 5, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to 666dsa666

666, not my favorite number :)

I am considering the complete kits... just not ready 4 that yet

Will the v1.2 or v1.1 have any hardware differences? I've got the v1 hardware but havent yet got it going. Will I have to get new hardware? Disappointing if I do.

Also with the e3d fan, with the current design, if you print ABS/PETg etc.. that fan will blow on the print but you should have zero cooling? Will that get addressed in the future versions?

Apr 5, 2016 - Modified Apr 5, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to uglybob

I have addressed the cooling as a major upgrade. The 30mm fan air is completely isolated and generously vented above and away from the print bed.

Your hardware will work absolutely fine (your motor, gears, hotend are all compatible and drop right in). So far, the only thing you will need to add are a couple of M2 self tapping screws that were not there b4.

Awesome thanks.

I'm fairly terrible at arduino coding, so if possible, could someone take a look and tell me how to make my BLTouch work? I tried using this guide:http://www.antclabs.com/pdf/AnthonyQuayle003.pdf But my firmware is a little weird compared to the defaults out there. Thanks in advance

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s0yn05u2dxtkvht/Latest%20MKS%20Firmware.rar?dl=0

@jared248371 - Have you been able to get your BLTouch working? I've been real happy with my new Toranado, but trying to get the BLTouch working with my firmware has brought all printing to a halt. I can't tell you how many times I've modified my configuration.h, how many excellent guides I've read, like Anthony Quale's, but am still driving my hot end into the print bed with the G28 command....
Any advise you could share would be most appreciated!

Has ANYONE gotten the BL touch to work? BigCooter also struggled w/ the firmware settings and I am not using bed leveling right now.

Apr 7, 2016 - Modified Apr 7, 2016
AnthonyQ - in reply to Toranado3D

Toranado3D , YES the BLTouch works fine. I have used it with Marlin RC3 through to the latest Release 1.1.0-RC5 bugfix.
I use it on a Cartesian.

The changes required are as per any other auto bed levelling sensor, capacitive or inductive PLUS the following to set the BLT as a servo:

define NUM_SERVOS 1 // Servo index starts with 0 for M280 command
// Servo Endstops
//
// This allows for servo actuated endstops, primary usage is for the Z Axis to eliminate calibration or bed height changes.
// Use M851 to set the Z probe vertical offset from the nozzle. Store that setting with M500.
//
//#define X_ENDSTOP_SERVO_NR 1
//#define Y_ENDSTOP_SERVO_NR 2
define Z_ENDSTOP_SERVO_NR 0
define SERVO_ENDSTOP_ANGLES {{0,0}, {0,0}, {10,90}} // X,Y,Z Axis Extend and Retract angles
Hope this helps.

I do honestly think its just inexperience on my part because everything went so smoothly other than the firmware part. Either way I have no clue :p

Well, it is also that the BL touch is newer to the REPRAP community. If we can can get solid firmware code it looks promising as it can sense on any surface.

The issue im currently having, which is definetly not the cureall for my problem is I'm having trouble finding where to find the pins for my z endstop as its requested by the following line: #define Z_PROBE_PIN -1

when I navigate to pins.h I see this for my specific mobo:

ifdef RAMPS_V_1_3

define ORIG_X_STEP_PIN 54

define ORIG_X_DIR_PIN 55

define ORIG_X_ENABLE_PIN 38

define ORIG_X_MIN_PIN 3

define ORIG_X_MAX_PIN 2

define ORIG_Y_STEP_PIN 60

define ORIG_Y_DIR_PIN 61

define ORIG_Y_ENABLE_PIN 56

define ORIG_Y_MIN_PIN 14

define ORIG_Y_MAX_PIN 15

define ORIG_Z_STEP_PIN 46

define ORIG_Z_DIR_PIN 48

define ORIG_Z_ENABLE_PIN 62

define ORIG_Z_MIN_PIN 18

define ORIG_Z_MAX_PIN 19

define ORIG_E0_STEP_PIN 26

define ORIG_E0_DIR_PIN 28

define ORIG_E0_ENABLE_PIN 24

define ORIG_E1_STEP_PIN 36

define ORIG_E1_DIR_PIN 34

define ORIG_E1_ENABLE_PIN 30

define SDPOWER -1

define SDSS 53

define ORIG_SDCARDDETECT 49

define LED_PIN 13

define ORIG_FAN_PIN 9

define ORIG_PS_ON_PIN 12

define HEATER_0_PIN 10

define HEATER_1_PIN 8

define HEATER_2_PIN 9

define TEMP_0_PIN 13 // ANALOG NUMBERING

define TEMP_1_PIN 14 // ANALOG NUMBERING

define TEMP_2_PIN 15

define E0_PINS ORIG_E0_STEP_PIN,ORIG_E0_DIR_PIN,ORIG_E0_ENABLE_PIN,

define E1_PINS ORIG_E1_STEP_PIN,ORIG_E1_DIR_PIN,ORIG_E1_ENABLE_PIN,

Additionally, my motherboard is an MKS Gen V1.4 Which is very much based off of the ramps board.

I see you are using a MKS Gen V1.4 A new pins file was added recently (7 days) to support this board in Marlin 1.1.0-RC5 Bugfix. Plug your BLTouch into the D11 servo connector (with +5 and GND).

Why you not answering me Toranado3D?
I need the size of this extruder to create my CAD parts.

I'm sorry.. not ignoring, just trying to do many things at once... Will try to remember to do that when I get back tomorrow

Toranado first run impressions......
Nice and smooth running, the stepper motor stay cool all the time(run on a 12 hours piece), just adjusted the steps a bit during the run but nothing more, just my fault.
Good retraction speed and no problem at all running at 100mm sec with high acceleration retraction speed(i was afraid of motor stall and loosing steps).
The pieces are printed with no strings or "dragging" which is a common problem if the extruder is not depositing the plastic at the same speed as the travel speed, the cooling system is efficient and surrounding the nozzle, so... very good!!
The only note i can rise is that the fans cover are currently cutting the inlet airflow by the 60% more or less, so i run mine without any cover, the result is a much better cooling everywhere(VERY important for a high quality print especially in the transition point of the hot end).
A simple run without the covers can give you an idea of what i'm talking about.
Cover are just a nice thing to see, but in my case i need efficiency, good quality print and zero plastic waste(which is a big amount of my time).
A really amazing design, my compliments to the designer!!!
That's all for now.

Merlin, thanks for the feedback.

Thank you much for airflow with the fan covers. How did you measure the actual airflow reduction - or are you assuming the cross sectional area differences between fan cover and no fan cover?

Hi,
I have a small airflow measure instrument that i use for my drones, so i printed an adapter cone and just read the 2 measured airspeed, after that and based on the inlet diameter is easy to calculate the airflow.
The problem is that the fan we use for the cooling system are made for computer use, and they work fine only in open air.
If you are courious and want to make an experiment, just make float some smoke around the 40 mm fan, you will notice that keeping it between your fingers will will make possible the quick and clean smoke suction thru the fan, if you mount the fan on the extruder and try the same you will notice the smoke making a lot of vortex around and take more time to do the same, due to the big airflow reduction as the fan is not capable of any air compression(blade shape).
To partially avoid the problem i use a high speed fan(9000 rpm) with ball bearing instead of sleeve bearing for all my printers... is a bit noisy but really efficient.

Well, after the boring conference and as usual, i apologies for my bad English, you will forgive me some errors.
Regards

Great make and makers! Guys, think about optical endstop for filament, like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/201124401725

So looking at the latest picture it appears that you are ditching the e3d fan shroud for an integrated solution. Is that right?

Yes. I'm gonna pull that image down since it is so old, and post some new info.

This extruder looks really good. But will the plastic gear last for long? I tried to find metal alternative but found only smaller - 85T.
But for very nice price.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-7075-Metal-48P-Spur-Gear-80T-for-SAKURA-D3-CS-S-XI-XIS-1/32463914749.html

Mar 26, 2016 - Modified Mar 26, 2016
BigCooter - in reply to tego1

I've been running my Toranado for months now, can't see any sign of wear on the Delrin plastic big gear ... should last a VERY long time. Also, it is very hard to find an alternative gear, that is low cost, lightweight and can be fitted to a 5mm shaft directly or with hub that has a low run-out precision fit.

im also found just 48p and 92T whell on aliexpress is that any solition ?

Mar 26, 2016 - Modified Mar 26, 2016

So great that you will allow remixes and share the STEP files!
Your head will be a very much used extruders in the future for sure!

I will support your for sure by buying your kit. Just waiting for the dual head.

Can't wait to see what our community can do!

I absolutely agree with you!!! :-))

I just finish printing plastic parts.
Congratulations, very pretty good job.
Can you tell me when spare parts kits will be available on ebay.
Thanks
BG

Yes, I will list some more this weekend

Fine,

Thanks !

I printed the parts and they all came out fine except my fan housing is way taller than the one in the pics. The fan covers wont fit. Still waiting on my kit to arrive.

PLEASE ADVISE

You mean printed fan housing, like a fan duct? Or... Your actual cooling fan??

What is the size of this final extruder?

I am building a Lulzbot TAZ and can design mounting for this. Do you have an assembly version of this in step format? Creo 3.0 sucks at using stl files and will not let me pick surfaces from it to model to. Once I have the mounts I can forward you the step and stl files for the TAZ

Yes, the .STP files will be made available to Makers on the 12th.

I also have an ORDbot Hadron that I am currently using that I could design a mount for but not too many people using that machine I am sure.

One of the reasons I am waiting to release the .STP files are because of the final features I wanted to add on v1.2. Stuff like this. Thank you for being patient with me!

Mar 24, 2016 - Modified Mar 24, 2016
t3rry - in reply to Toranado3D

Oh the possibilities with the wiring disconnect, I might need to build a whole second setup and have a (relatively) quick swap extruder change to 3mm filament.

Ha! We had the same-ish idea!

I'm getting ready to release the files for a 22W that will allow remixing and allow others to take the files and adapt them to their printers. This way, there is a disconnect for the extruder cable harness as well, making it easy to take it off the printer.

Wiring on these things needs SOLVED.

I totally agree. What's a 22W?

22 total terminals. 20 standard Dupont terminals and 2 with the higher current for the heater cartridge. I might reduce it a bit to a lesser pin count... but still thinking about what would work for most anyone.

Cool, looking forward to it.

Mar 23, 2016 - Modified Mar 23, 2016
cdl1701 - in reply to Toranado3D

Ahh no problem.. I do something similar with my designs but I use Molex mini-fit JR or micro-fit connectors. Mini-fit JR are standard connectors used in computers and are easy to find and get from just about any online PC mod shop or, where I usually get all my stuff, Mouser.
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=mini-fit
http://www.mouser.com/new/molex/molexmicrofit3/

This comment has been deleted.

Can't wait for the files to be released so I can try to remix this for my BigBox!
And good timing too, I will be back from vacation around that time.

What changes to the stl files on the 12th? Was just getting ready to build this thing after repeated printing of it to get everything perfect. Used all of my brass inserts too.

:)

Be at peace. I am trying to keep in place as much as I can and change little, most of the hardware will carry over.

I know you used your inserts.. if I remember right, you were having a hard time finding a local supplier... probably best to search and find an online source.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/300pcs-M3-4mm-H62-Brass-Knurl-Nuts-DIY-Accessories-/221976611477?hash=item33aed64a95:g:df8AAOSw3KFWe15w

Wait a minute. Most of the hardware? I think I probably better stick with this build.

LOL. I might reduce a screw or two. :)

Whew...I can do less..another treasure hunt for more I wasn't looking forward too.

Thanks for the update. Actually just ordered those yesterday ;)

I have a couple of questions: Is there a better alternative to those knurl brass inserts? They look good but not very forgiving in PLA once they start to get loose there is no effective way to redo them. On the inside of the E3D mount there are four raised sections, what are they for?

Mar 22, 2016 - Modified Mar 22, 2016
cheetahkid - in reply to Makeplastic

hi there, if it coming loose, you can use soldering iron to give it wiggle round to make it stick, if it really loose, take it out and with spare filament to fill some into the hole and refit the knurl nut back in, make sure the hole is free, if not drill it out the pop in the knurl nut. Hopes this helps. All my knurl nuts whatever I makes in PLA is pretty good fit.

Mar 22, 2016 - Modified Mar 22, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to cheetahkid

IN addition, I have over 200 hours on mine, and they are solid. HOWEVER, I have the stepper Vref set properly and the current to my NEMA-14 is @ 500mA as it is rated. If you get the motor way too hot, and the plastic softens, you can induce a problem w/ the knurl nuts holding. But I can (and am) always looking for effective ways to improve things - so I appreciate the feedback.

I'm looking at this closely. Mine have stayed in nice and tight. But in the v1.2 release of plastic, I may consider changing this.

wanted to try and fit to a rostock max. Are the files available to make some changes?

Are you planning on making the adaptations yourself in CAD?

Yes. Just myself and I am using autodesk 123d

Alright, did you see my latest update??

Anyone using the BL touch have this setting yet. Just got mine and am ready to start putting things together.

define Z_PROBE_OFFSET_FROM_EXTRUDER

Mar 20, 2016 - Modified Mar 20, 2016
AnthonyQ - in reply to krwynn

Even though everyone with a Toranado and a BLTouch will have a similar value they will still vary for various reasons - manufacture tolerance of extruder, hot end and the BLTouch it self. You might also want to fine tune it for different bed materials eg Build Tak usually needs a different first layer to say glass. It can also vary with filament materials. I recommend that you use #define Z_PROBE_OFFSET_FROM_EXTRUDER -2 and then setup and fine tune it as per my guide. I have updated the guide to include a section on setting up from the front panel instead of host software. The new version is here http://www.antclabs.com/pdf/AnthonyQuayle003.pdf

Mar 18, 2016 - Modified Mar 18, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to krwynn

The BL Touch, in the x-direction is exactly 28mm from the nozzle, and it is aligned in the Y. DAMRIN has had his on for awhile now.

Again, Nozzle center to pin center is 28.0mm in the x direction, They are aligned in the y-direction.

Mar 18, 2016 - Modified Mar 18, 2016
krwynn - in reply to Toranado3D

Thanks but also need the z probe offset as it tells the printer how far to lower the extruder after homing z. There is no way the probe is the same distance from the bed as the extruder end or it would crash. Unless I'm completely missing something here.

If you watch this video you'll see that after the measure in the right rear, the extruder drops lower than what the probe measured. That's the measurement I'm looking for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JwNg1mT6u0

So, in your video, I can see the same issue that troubled me. The pin is not retracting after leveling. I finally had to use a fresh copy of Marlin-1.0.x to solve the issue. https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/tree/1.0.x
It should be noted that I was unable to configure the RC version to work correctly. The probe is working correctly now but the printer is only probing the left sides of the bed... Here is a link to the Configuration.h I am using...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5od0feymdceqrqc/Configuration.h?dl=0
As for the Z probe offset the Anthony Quayle PDF explains that process near the end of the doc. I hope this helps some, and if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. Maybe you will see where I am going wrong in the process...:P

Thanks. I guess I'm trying to skip that process as the setting for anyone using the Toranado should be the same.

I use the given spec as a baseline for calibration. I have never been able to use defaults and get calibrated results, but they should get you pretty darn close.

Is there any info useful in this guide?

http://www.antclabs.com/pdf/AnthonyQuayle001.pdf

Yeah it gets me in the ballpark, -1.4 to -1.6. Would be great to see what someone using the Torando has it set at. Should be the same for everyone since there is no variable in the mounting height.

I will contact DAMRIN, see what he went with (I don't use auto bed leveling yet).

Instead of Ulitbots MK7 can I use this ? https://www.fabberworld.com/mk7-extruder-zahnrad , Because Ulitbots does not send to Cyprus. ( From what I read the Fabber MK7 is the best in the world....) Outer dia 12.75mm, drive dia 11.22 mm, length 11.20 mm

Yes, it would work.

Just be sure that when you do your calculation for the drive diameter... you use those values instead of the 11.17.

Dang everything hooked up and I'm having issues with the hotend! I can get like 2 20mm shots of filament then when I test it again nothing. The drive gear just spins on the filament. I get good teeth marks down towards the hotend but wont come out. I increased the temp to 235 but still messin with me... I can't even push it thru while hot. And I gotta get up for work early tomorrow and no more fun time tonight!!!

Mar 17, 2016 - Modified Mar 17, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to grtbaldini

If you can't push it through with little force (should manually push through with little resistance) than you are right, need to look @ hotend setup.

Once you gen an e3Dv6 setup properly... they are the best.

E3dv6 Setup Guide

Keep me posted!

Ok it was a heat issue like low heat. I bumped it up to 240 for ABS and boom... I am uploading a small vid on my make page

I am not seeing where i can find the nema 14 motor.
Is there anything else that has to be sourced other than the small parts kit and gear kit?
Has anyone used this with the rostock max v2?
Thanks !!

Look at the bottom of the Details page.. you will see a BOM with the links to the Hardware.

https://www.pololu.com/product/1208

Some guy installed this onto a Prusa-like printer and is complaining about a LOT of heat on the motor (NEMA14) so hot he can't even touch it... Is it normal? How many mAmps should this be driven with? Or is it a normal behaviour on this extruder?

Thanks!

Mar 16, 2016 - Modified Mar 16, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to bolsoncerrado

Where is the complaint being registered? Is it in regard to the Rapide XL on the printbot forum?

Yes, the NEMA-14's run hot, which is why we developed a PTFE heat isolation system around the mounting bolts and isolated the motor from the extruder mount. If you simply install the motor per my specifications, and if you simply run them at the proper rated voltage, you will find it performs very well. Here are my instructions below:


The NEMA-14 Stepper Motor

The motor I have spec'd is rated at 500mA, and even at the rated voltage NEMA14's run hot - be sure not to exceed the rated voltage. Also, You MUST follow Item #9 of the build instructions as well - isolating the motor heat from the extruder mount is critical.

For the popular RAMPS 1.4 setups:

DRV8825 1/32 stepper - you should take a DC voltage measurement exactly like this. To properly set the motor current, you should adjust your potentiometer to get the reference voltage as close to 0.25V as possible. 0.25V = 500mA (0.5A) to the motor. (Any setting between 0.24-0.26 should work fine). Formula: Measured VREF x 2 = Motor Current

Pololou A4988 Driver - measure to voltage exactly like this. To properly set the motor current, you should adjust your potentiometer to get the reference voltage as close to 0.2V as possible. 0.2V = 500mA to the motor. (Any setting between 0.19-0.21 should work fine). Formula: Measured VREF x 2.5 = Motor Current

NEMA-14 WIRING to RAMPS1.4 w Ardino Mega 2560

Thanks Sir. I'll point him once again to this.

Mar 16, 2016 - Modified Mar 16, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to bolsoncerrado

Was it up on the printbot forum? Feel free to have them contact me and I'll try to help. Just let them know that it is very very critical to run the NEMA-14s properly. They are not like the heavier NEMA-17s that you can often get by with your current being a bit high.

Nope, CloneWars (spanish) forum. Thanks for the help/support!! Definetly missing something in the path. I'm also awaiting parts for mine ;)

Mar 16, 2016 - Modified Mar 16, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to bolsoncerrado

OK, keep me posted, and thank you... looking forward to seeing your MAKE. Blessings!

This comment has been deleted.
Mar 14, 2016 - Modified Mar 14, 2016

I made a BL Touch to Z-Probe adapter bracket for those of you that prefer a 12mm Z-Probe, no changes will need to be made to the Toranado Extruder itself, Just print the BL Touch 40mm fan duct.

Thank you again Toranado3D for the dedication in designing this extruder.

Here's a link to the adapter:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1411627

Toranado Precision Geared Extruder BL touch to Z probe adapter
by irond4n

:)

I linked to this in my update this morning. Thank you for this!

Also, have you posted your MAKE?

What is the Outside Diameter of M3x4mm Brass Knurl Nuts for this design, the link you provide is sold out, and I find that there are 4.2mm & 5mm for M3x4mm Brass Knurl Nuts in other store.

You can also get them here. The OD is 4mm.

Mar 13, 2016 - Modified Mar 13, 2016

Do you know wether should I change the Current Limit in my A4988 drive, if I use the motor you recommend (NEMA-14 Stepper Motor - 28mm length). By the way, I use ramp 1.4, so my power supply is 12v.
I am a beginner, and I really don't know how to calculate the max current if they just tell me that "Each phase draws 500 mA at 10 V", so I am worry about wether I will break the motor.

If you got the actual Pololou A4988 driver, your VREF should be set to 0.2V = 500Ma to the motor. If you look at the bottom of the summary page, I link a photo showing you how to take the measurement.

Mar 12, 2016 - Modified Mar 12, 2016

Can the mk8 or mk10 hobbed gears be used? Or does it rely on the groove in the mk7?

Just wondering if incan get away with what i have instead of ordering more hobbed gears.

Edit: i actually have some 5mm id u-groove bearingsthat may allow me to use them.

What is the effective (drive) diameter of your MK8 or MK10? The MK7 one that I spec'd is 11.17. If it is close to this your gear will probably work.

I think its around 10.8 if i remember correctly... Ill test fit it before i do anything... Funny thing other than the specialty rods and gears i have everything on hand for this other than the gear... I may order one anyway since ill be waiting on the gear kit as is.

Mar 11, 2016 - Modified Mar 11, 2016

I managed to completed my extruder, I heavy modified the x-carriage and it is now takes 45mm bearings, nice and smooth... next job, electrical.
Waiting for BLTouch to come.

Please post your Toranado mount to Thingiverse. Would love to see it and add it to the list of mounts.

Wes

This comment has been deleted.

Think I'm ready to put this bad boy together!

For anyone trying to source a 5mm collar and the 625 bearings, openbuilds parts store and makerparts.ca carry these. The bearings are sealed instead of shielded which is an added bonus. Mine came in today and are excellent.

hay is there any way to get to fit an xyz printer that would be great i think the more machines it fits the better post your answer please

I agree - I'm always looking for the standard x-carriage mounting pattern. If you have a .STL send it to me ([email protected])

Thank you once again.. I posted information about the BL Touch in today's update. :)

I am pleased you found my guide useful. You won't be disappointed with the BLTouch. I have been using it for over a month now and I am very impressed, it just works! and consistently, a good match with your extruder I expect.

Mar 9, 2016 - Modified Mar 9, 2016

Hi Wes

You should post a link to the Toranado on the BLTouch page

Also did you see that they changed the Z distance from 8.5mm to 8.3 +-0.2mm

Commented to let the know we're supporting their sensor. Mine came yesterday.

I will update file.

Is there any place I can find the BL Touch Bed Sensor in the US, or anywhere with a faster shipping rate? Thanks

Mar 9, 2016 - Modified Mar 9, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to jared248371

I got mine yesterday, it took 3.5 weeks. I did not find a US supplier.

Mar 9, 2016 - Modified Mar 9, 2016
Endlesshunt - in reply to Toranado3D

It is only available from the manufacturer AntcLabs
I ordered mine through PayPal as in the qoute below, it was sold out on eBay
I got it in about 2 weeks with Standard Int'l Shipping

Quote"

ANTCLABS
Shared publicly - Feb 13, 2016

Hello, everyone who are interested in BLTouch!

We can sell only 100 items per a month on eBay :)
So it always be sold out quickly.

If you want to order through PayPal, please send us an e-mail including 1.quantity, 2.shipping type, 3.your name, 4.address, 5.zip code, and 6.phone number.

BLTouch Price : $28 / ea
Shipping Price : Standard Int'l Shipping - $5 (5 - 20 business days)
or EMS/DHL - $25 (1-6 business days)

E-mail & PayPal Account : [email protected]

Also you can track your package on this site!
http://www.17track.net/en

Thank you!
ANTCLABS (A&T - BLTouch Team)

" End Quote

Hi Wes

Is there enough material at the top landing where the filament enters for a 8mm hole 8mm deep to fit one of these Embedded Bowden Couplings?

Unfortunately, no. I can look at changing the plastic for v1.2, but right now I'm just using the press fit Bowden tube in the housing.

I take it you want to connect a Bowden tube from the spool to the extruder as well?

Mar 8, 2016 - Modified Mar 8, 2016
Endlesshunt - in reply to Toranado3D

Yes, I'm planning on a dry box for the filament on a shelf above and behind the printer. Will carry four spools of different filament. There will be four tubes from the box to the printer and I will insert the relevant tube (with filament) as needed for a quick change system. On the dual printhead I will use two tubes from the box. Another reason why the cables on my printheads will be terminated in connectors at the printhead to provide for a quick change of printheads.

Awesome, let me look into this, I'm making some minor plastic updates for some v1.2 improvements.

I recently designed a 3D-printable inline connector for that very purpose. It has 22 connections, and includes two larger terminals to capture the wires for the heater block.

I'll send you some images, was going o release it next month. Very cool.

Mar 10, 2016 - Modified Mar 10, 2016
cheetahkid - in reply to Toranado3D

I also working on connector, two plugs 10 pins and 5 pins, will connected to the box where my ramps 1.4 will be. Just waiting for parts now.

If you are making some changes, make a version with all the screw holes on the extruder base at 4mm dia for the first 6mm. I have drilled them all like this and inserted threaded brass inserts into all of them so that I could use M3 Dome headed Allen screws everywhere, no self tappers. Also the 40mm fan mounting holes on the duct got inserts. I also made a hole through the extruder base under the motor to route the motor cables neatly and out of view.

I would like to see that connector housing, sound good.

Mar 6, 2016 - Modified Mar 6, 2016

For those asking about 3mm filament with the Torando:

I got the following from Big Cooter this AM:

"As far as I understand it, it will take 3 times more force on 3mm filament to produce the same nozzle pressure as 1.75mm filament … 3X more motor torque .. unless you change the gear ratio to 10:1 or higher .. or go to a NEMA 17 … 3mm filament probably isn’t going to work well this extruder … but if people want to play with that, let them have at it. Engineering sense tells me it would be a futile effort to attempt using a NEMA 14 and 5:1 gearing [with 3.0mm filament]"

This is my concern as well. To reinforce: this extruder was developed with weight and precision in mind. I went away from the NEMA-17 because of weight, and the lightweight NEMA-14s need a high gear differential to generate adequate torque - especially under more demanding print conditions.

Great answer! Perhaps someone, someday will be inspired by the Toranado and build a 3mm precision extruder!

Its all I ever used and never had printed in PLA, only abs. Its been almost 3 yrs now and I just have converted my MendelMax 1.5 into a i3 PrusaMax... :)

Do you know what the appeal is for 3mm filament? Is there an engineering reason it is desirable?

All my research tells me that it comes down to the setup you are using. Flex filaments tend to do better via direct drive too. My first printer just so happened to be a 3mm filament printer, and until recently, that's all I used. But as far as better or worse... I don't think there is any advantage, at least none I have seen.*

*However some may have a compelling argument in favor of one over the other. :P

I appreciate the response. I've ordered a NEMA 14 as well as getting some 1.75 filament. Plus I bought a 1.75 hotend which will keep me on track with your build

Mar 8, 2016 - Modified Mar 8, 2016
Endlesshunt - in reply to grtbaldini

3mm is better if you are printing big stuff with big nozzles (0.8mm and up). Tipically with a hotend such as E3D's Vulcano. 3mm filiment has 2.94 times the volume per milimeter than 1.75mm filament hence the 3 times the force to push it through the same nozzle. Also means that you only have a third of the precision in the control of filament extruded (1mm extruded give 3 times the print volume).

For precision printing 1.75mm is better, 3mm for fast high volume printing. Horses for courses.

Besides the weight issue, could I use a NEMA 17 motor instead of the 14? BTW, saw you had a few full kits available to buy and snagged one... On my way to get this made!

A NEMA 17 would be difficult to use with this gearset - and the plastic would need redesigned.

One more thing, can this be adapted for 3mm?

I have never tried 3mm, and I am wondering what the differences in torque requirements are between 1.75mm and 3.0mm. I'd have to look into it.

This thought has crossed my mind too. The design is similar enough that it should be possible to adapt it to 3mm... Plus it would be great since I have lots of 3mm filament. :P

as do I

gottcha, thanks!

do u have a email i can send some pics

[email protected]

hello did you get my mail

ok thank you sir i will do i a pic and get back to you and thank you again

can you take out the touch levening sensor and replace it with a sevo mount in the sameplace

hi sorry
i have a prusa i3 and was looking for a 9g servo mount to add like this http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:757336
for auto bed leaveing

E3D V6 Bowden mount with servo.

Ok, I need to understand where to position it... When u get a mmt I can pull in the stls and look.

can you add a servo mount for auto bed please

Are you looking for a mont for a specific sensor? If so, please provide details.

... can't we (at least I want to) order a full kit in advance ?
Every time I look on Ebay they are sold out :-( ... and I really want one ...

Are there going to be more full kits made available to purchase?

Thank you, trying to source all the parts to Canada would have cost nearly 90 dollars in shipping, ouch!

A great job and especially well designed, i'm not gonna use the bl touch sensor as i use the FSR sensors on the bed, but the extruder is a piece of art!

Are there any plans for a version for a Chimera/ dual hotend setup? If not would you mind if I used your design to make one?

Regards,
Elijah

Mar 3, 2016 - Modified Mar 3, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to Essie

Yes, I am already using this gearset on an upcoming Chimera design. If you don't mind, please give me a chance to finish/release it. I'm not allowing remixes at this time.

Absolutely! I am very excited about that and will hold off on buying any kits until it is released. Do you have an approximate eta? Will it also be compatible with the BLTouch?

Your announcement has made my day!

Regards,
Elijah

2-3 weeks, yes it will

Thank you! I look forward to its release!

Good morning,
first of all congratulations for your work, I have a request, can I have the measures of the main Gear, or maybe the STL file if it exists? 'cause I can not find the measures anywhere !!
thank you
Angel

This comment has been deleted.

thanks but it is too complicated table do not understand anything (and I am a mechanic) see if I can find around someone who has already done.
Thanks anyway.

Sorry for the confusion.

The outside diameter of the main gear is 2.000"

The pitch diameter (the diameter where the main gear teeth interface with the teeth of pinion gear) is 1.9583"

:)

Now it's ok!
Thk you For your time!

Mar 2, 2016 - Modified Mar 2, 2016

Could you include a drawing with a few dimensions shown. Such as the overall height (with E3Dv6) and width, the location of the mount holes relative to the L/R sides and also the nozzle axis, etc. I'm working an a mount for the Printrbot 1405.

Thanks!

Will try... Yes

I am proud to announce the Robo 3d carriage is now available at http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1380864

Toranado Robo3d R1+ Carrier and Fan
Mar 1, 2016 - Modified Mar 1, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to jaystar2242

This should serve as a good stop-gap for Robo3D users until I release the Toranado Robo 3D. Thank you for getting this out there.

If you could, please link back the the main Toranado Precision Geared Extruder page.

Also, I noticed that you are placing the belt behind the NEMA-14. I like this arrangement, but am unfamiliar with the Robo 3D space restrictions. Since you have moved the hotend from the exact center position, were you able to adjust your endstops, etc. to get complete coverage on the heated bed?

Hi Wes, I just finished building your extruder, and im having some serious issues with cooling the plastic. I hooked up the fan to a 12v and it blows for sure, but it doesnt seem to be hitting the plastic because its just bundling up into a ball with all my prints. Any ideas?

Thanks

Feb 29, 2016 - Modified Feb 29, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to jared248371

What are you trying to print? Is it an extremely small part that does not get fan coverage? What does your print surface look like? Glass over a heat bed? (PEI)?

There is always a balance when it comes to bed cooling - you don't want the bed cooling airflow blowing on the hot nozzle and cooling it, but it also can't be too far away as to not cover the part as the print head moves.

Now I have a very short bed cooling duct, with lots of coverage near the hot nozzle. - better than any ducts I could easily find for use... but I am also printing on PEI over Robax glass.

Try printing two parts side by side if they are too small to get fan coverage - and be sure you can feel the airflow and the fan is not backwards.

Also - what type of plastic are you printing w? PLA? ABS?

I'm printing at 215 degrees black hatch box pla. And yeah since I just finished getting the extruder going I tried to print a calibration cube 10x10x10 mm. I'm using kapton tape on an aluminum bed at 55 degrees. Tried painters tape as well, same result

If you can, try printing two side by side, and be sure your steps per mm is correct....

Mar 1, 2016 - Modified Mar 1, 2016
jared248371 - in reply to Toranado3D

okay will do, One other thing.. The nema 14 is running what seems to be too hot. It burns fingers on contact and wont extrude without a loud clicking sound, and is causing the gear to vibrate back and forth therefore not extruding

Edit: The clicking sound stopped but ive noticed that in and out there is still some sort of clicking while it prints, and it periodically extrudes and then doesn't so could I have some sort of voltage issue? Because even though you said it runs hot, I dont know if this is normal levels of heat

Here is a good article on adjusting your Trim Pots.

http://reprap.org/wiki/Pololu_stepper_driver_board

Be sure your stepper driver reference voltage is not set above what will produce the rated current for the NEMA-14, this is critical. The motor I spec'd needs at or just under 500mA. Even at the rated current, the NEMA-14 gets very hot. So, be sure to use the PTFE heat isolation system I spec'd on Item#9 of the build instructions... Or it will melt your extruder mount.

As I continue troubleshooting this issue, I've noticed that the feed is inconsistant when I turn the gear cover on the side, at first it pulls the filament through but eventually it slips and stops extruding as if the drive gear lost grip of the filament. I have tightened the idler all the way as well, and its not a grinding issue because there are no teeth marks on the filament, so Im just a bit confused on why its happening

Here are a couple things to try:

1) Open the idler so that you can see the drive gear, and heat up the hot-nozzle to temperature. Push the filament by hand. It should NOT take a lot of force to manually push the filament through the hotend, and it should flow smoothly. If it seems that you are pushing a bit hard on the filament to get it to flow through the nozzle - you have a clogged nozzle or you have not setup the e3Dv6 according to their recommendations. When properly setup, the material will easily flow from the nozzles. Are you using an e3dv6 or a Chinese clone?

2) Remove the drive gear entirely, and then check the Gear-Gear fit. Because of the precision of the gears, you MUST be sure that you are careful when you tighten your NEMA-14 to the bracket. Without the drive gear in place - do the gears rotate freely with one another with little to no wobble and without binding? With my current setup, there is EVER SO SLIGHT a gap between the gear teeth of the motor pinion and the main gear (The main gear has just a tad bit of play). I am guessing that this could be your problem - the NEMA 14 pinion is too tight to the main gear causing it to bind.

3) Be 100% sure that your NEMA-14 current is set properly. Set it as close as posisble to the reated current of the motor (500mA).

4) Make sure there is ZERO stripped filament in your Mk7 Drive gear, if this gear is clean it is the best one I have used. Did you get the one from Ultibot?

If all 4 of these are looked at carefully - I am 100% confident this will be a wonderful extruder for you. Here are the facts you need to consider:

If the motor current is set properly, if you gears are aligned, and if your hotend nozzle allows the material to flow freely - the NEMA-14 WILL extrude 1.75mm admirably (outstanding even).

Carefully check these things... and please report back. :)

Here is what I know and don't:

  1. I am using an E3D Lite V6 and filament flows through the hot nozzle like butter when pushed by hand.
  2. I followed the diagram exactly by the order of the PTFE washers and everything using every single part you supplied and no work arounds. And do you mean that I need to loosen the NEMA-14 Mount screws to space out the pinion on it from the main gear to eliminate over-tightness?
  3. As far as adjusting the current goes, How would I go about changing it? Would it be by using a volt meter and turning the screw in the stepper? I am sorry I am quite a novice to electrical current adjusting.

Thanks for all of the in-depth help and for creating such an ingenius design (with a lot of aesthetic pleasure behind it). I hope to get this thing working soon!

-Jared

Mar 1, 2016 - Modified Mar 1, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to jared248371

Great info.

Point #1 - check that off the list. This is good news.

Point #2 - Yes, this is exactly what I mean. Since the gear to gear spacing will never be 100% without wobble, you will notice that as you turn it it may tighten and loosen ever so slightly from gear to gear. If you tighten the NEMA14 down with the pinion gear tight against the main gear, it will likely bind as you turn it all the way around. My solution was to check this closely, when I tightened the motor mounting bolts. It is a tad frustrating to get the gear-gear spacing perfect - but when I was done there was ever so slight an amount of play between the gears. Too much play is bad, but a slight slight amount is perfectly OK.

Point #3 - I'm fairly confident this is your issue. The NEMA 14 must be run at the rated voltage. You need to check the reference voltage of your Steppers. You said they were A4988 1/16 steppers. If they are the common ones from Pololou, you need to check the VREF between the potentiometer and the ground pin - and multiply this by 2.5x. However, be careful, according to This Article there is a difference between the quality Pololu ones and the Chinese clones. Anyway, supposing you have an actual A4988 Pololou Driver, you will check the reference voltage on your driver Exactly like this and then you will multiply that number by 2.5 - that will be your current sent to the motor. So, you want your DC reverence voltage to read as close to possible to 0.2V. 0.2V on an actual A4988 = 0.2*2.5 = .5 = 500mA to the motor. Simply turn the potentiometer with the power on, check the Vref, and when you get it to 0.2V - so long as your driver and stepper are good quality, the motor will work great at the rated current.

The only other possibility that I can think of is that you don't have enough spring force on the ilder pulley. Since I sent you the compression springs - and they should be the same ones I'm using - I doubt it. If you can, please take a photo of your springs and send them to [email protected] - just to be sure I sent the proper ones.

So it looks like you were completely correct in assuming my problem was point 3. My stepper was adjusted to 0.66 so i brought it down to 0.21. Everything is working like a champ now and i'm printing away. I would like to reiterate and say that I am so appreciative of the detailed assistance I've been given. I sincerely hope you continue to come up with these genius designs for the 3d printing community and know how talented you and anyone else that helped with this project are at designing.
Thanks

-Jared

VERY good news!

Easy to adjust the gear spacing. Take a piece of printer paper (about 20mm x 20mm) and feed it between the two gears. Now mesh the gears so that they have a nice fit, not tight but not loose either. Remove the paper. The gears should now have a good non-binding fit with minimum backlash.

Endlesshunt, once again you have another simple and good idea. Thank you much.

i think that was my issue and it was because I had not changed the gear steps - you have to calculate and change in firmware. once changed it extrudes as it should. Wes included the calculation formula.

Mar 1, 2016 - Modified Mar 1, 2016
jared248371 - in reply to cobretti

I entered the 902, assuming it was the same for all, am i wrong and if so, how do i calculate them properly?

Thanks

Edit: Just realized the calculation formula is using 1/32 Steppers and im using a 1/16 A4988 so I guess i have to divide it by two now.?

correct same as mine

no you will have to change it according to your motor stepping which may be different - in my case I have a melzi board which uses 1/16 stepping - since yours is doing exactly what mine did I would suspect your motor stepping is different too

I purchased the exact same motor Wes had, but how am I to do that? Im sorry im fairly new to the world of NEMAs

not the nema motor stepping - the stepping of the drivers of your board - are you using a ramps board,melzi or some other? no need to say sorry I am just as new :)

Mar 1, 2016 - Modified Mar 1, 2016
jared248371 - in reply to cobretti

Im using an MKS Gen v1.4 with A4988 1/16 Steppers
It is based off of ramps I believe

Hi I love this all in one extruder you have designed! I plan on printing the pieces soon. I was wondering when the fastener kit will be available?

Kits will be available Thursday.

Im still waiting on the self tapping screws... should be this week :)

hi Wes - question regarding the nema14 stepper - is it supposed to run a little hot even when not in use? I am hoping I have not done anything wrong but when the printer restarts everything is at room temp and as soon as I do even just a home or autolevel command this stepper starts heating up. I admit I spent quite a couple of hours getting my printer configured as I am fairly new to 3d printing. After I changed out the extruder my settings were obviously off and I had quite a learning experience to recompile my firmware to recognize the new offsets. Here is a short video showing the bed levelling https://youtu.be/2L2E9Y5tJsM. Still need to get it ready for test printing.

What are you using for bed leveling?

Thanks! I've never seen that one before. Seems to be lots of different types these days.

Feb 27, 2016 - Modified Feb 27, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to cobretti

Awesoem VID!

YES! the NEMA-14's run hot. I haven't checked it with an IR gun, but it was soften PLA. This is why I designed the PTFE heat isolation system. Be sure that you mount the motor EXACTLY according to item #9 of the Build Instructions. Notice in the lower left corner I show the PTFE isolating the heat form the plastic brackets I have about 300 hours on my Toranado now, and the heat isolation system works perfectly. :)

What kind of bed-leveling sensor is that?

Migbot level sensor fine adjust
by knabo

I wonder myself what the max temp is you want these to get. I found this today but now wonder now if 110c is too low. It may run all the time. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GWFK7FA?colid=1LO6VLMPPV8ZI&coliid=IK56ZRZTYUPIL&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl I have some tiny 25x25mm fans. I could have one kick on and blow on the NEMA if it got too hot.

Feb 27, 2016 - Modified Feb 27, 2016

Toranado printing this morning probably until around 12:30 or 12:45pm EST ... live stream from OctoPi ... http://bigcooter.ddns.net/webcam/?action=stream .... printing iPad stand: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:73314 .. using PETG material, at 120mm/s.

Simple iPad Stand
by cswaim

Love the LED add on, I need to incorporate that soon

it's a temporary 3 LED light add on (12v LED cut strip), just stuck on with tape ... until you design something Torando-ish to mount the LEDs on!

Feb 27, 2016 - Modified Feb 27, 2016
BigCooter - in reply to Toranado3D

...done printing, now I have a stand for my iPad Air, so I can watch my Toranado print via OctoPi! http://www.thingiverse.com/make:199502

Simple iPad Stand

Really nice kit wesley! My part kit has just arrived shame I'm moving house and won't be able to make it as soon as I wanted but none the less I'm really looking forward to put this together. Quick question would you be selling more all hardware kit on your ebay shop might be interested to buy a second kit.

Feb 26, 2016 - Modified Feb 26, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to elmuchacho

Yes, I will - restocking fasteners, etc. Won't be too long now.

Looking forward to seeing your MAKE, and good luck with the move.

This comment has been deleted.

Hi Wes,

Is it possible to print bridges with this extruder?
Can this extruder also be used on mendelmax 2.0?

Jan

It is not configured for Mendelmax 2.0. I have not been brave enough to go away from precision smooth rods for linear motion.

Yes, the extruder can bridge.

Hi Wes
What is the offset from the nozzle to the BLTouch probe on the Toranado

We'll eventually need this setting too once people get these hooked up. #define Z_PROBE_OFFSET_FROM_EXTRUDER

This comment has been deleted.

I matched the dims on this drawinng

Happy with that but what is you X,Y offset?

Nozzle center to pin center is 28.0mm in the x direction, They are aligned in the y-direction.

Thanks, we will need that X dimension to setup the sensor in Marlin

Feb 27, 2016 - Modified Feb 27, 2016
krwynn - in reply to Endlesshunt

We'll need the distance for the Y too. Thanks. Actually that will be pretty easy to get. Never mind.

Did you get your BL Touch in hand yet?

Feb 25, 2016 - Modified Feb 25, 2016
Endlesshunt - in reply to Toranado3D

Yes, it is currently mounted on my existing printhead but not yet plugged in or configured. Got it about a week ago. My printhead had 2 clamp designs for the hot end, one plain and the other a BLTouch bracket. Currently using this printhead http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1277720

Unified Prusa i3 Extruder for Mk8 drive gear, e3d v6 hotend, and BLTouch sensor.

Any look into a version for Hexagon hot ends?

I haven't. Can you send me some info as to the more popular ones - or the technical advantage/disadvantage of them?

May 11, 2016 - Modified May 11, 2016
whitemd - in reply to Toranado3D

Hi there - I am very interested in this as well. I can not imagine that there would be much re-work involved as I believe the clamp size is the same as the E3D v6. Here is a comparison that someone did with the Hexagon vs. E3D v6 that I am sure would be useful: http://bit.ly/1KRKKvk

Nice job on the BLTouch sensor integration! I will print the parts ASAP and let you know how it functions!

Wonderful! Mine won't be here for another few weeks.

What screws do you recommend to attach with?

Did u build the x carriage too

Feb 26, 2016 - Modified Feb 26, 2016
krwynn - in reply to Toranado3D

yes. I meant what size are the 2 screws for the BLTouch. Sorry for the confusion.

Feb 26, 2016 - Modified Feb 26, 2016
TechGirl_Mods - in reply to krwynn

I haven't built my TPGE yet but I have mounted a BLTouch on my D-Bot Core-XY printer. The BLTouch comes with M2.5 mounting screws, but, you can use M3 screws. So I would think that an M3 of a suitable length of 10mm or possibly 8mm would work.

To just throw an idea in the idea bin:

I prefer to run a 40mm fan on my e3d because the included 30mm fan was the loudest part of my printer. 40mm e3d fan adapters won't fit in the very form fitting Toranado shroud.

Because I think the idea of two 40m fans on both sides would look aesthetic pleasing and symmetrical, and for the benefits of a quieter slower RPM fan with the same airflow as a 30mm on the e3d,

Is it possible to get a 40mm on both sides version in the future?

Haha, Big Cooter just told me a few days ago, "Listen to that 30mm fan howl!" He had the same opinion as you on that one, they are loud because they move a lot of air for their size. :)

Perhaps I will get to that after I finish the other projects on my list - I'm working on an Toranado electronics enclosure that I hope will be a very good go-to Thing for hobbyists.

For the fan noize move the guard a few mm away from the fan. The flat back of the guard arms interact with the fan, same as a syren. If you get the guard about 3mm away from the fan it is much better

Hi,
For which controller board are you making the enclosure? I'm asking as I run a Rumba board and I have not yet found one that I like. Will most probable have to do one myself.
Cheers

Ramps 1.4 Arduino and Powersupply and Rasberry pi.

Hi,

Just wondering any ETA on Gear and Shaft Kit availability? Thanks!

Should have parts in hands Wednesday

Hello again Wesley, the (1x) 5mm Shaft Collar w/ Set Screw is impossible to import here to Spain:

This is a today email from McMaster-Carr

"Thank you for considering McMaster-Carr for your purchase, but we have cancelled your order for a shaft collar.
Due to the cost of complying with extensive US export regulations, McMaster-Carr accepts international purchases only from our established international customers"

Is there any posibility to print this collar?
This is the final piece for my extruder (i bought the two kits)

Thank you

Good find TechGirl!

I also uploaded a printable .STL file for the shaft collar - you'd just need to thread a 3mm set screw in it and it'd work OK. Not exactly as robust as metal, but all it is doing is keeping the 5mm gear shaft from backing out - and it will work for that.

Feb 22, 2016 - Modified Feb 22, 2016
TechGirl_Mods - in reply to aventurer

I got my collar from http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221511375836?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=520364461958&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT. It is the same size as the collar from McMaster-Carr. It is actually a Openbuilds part and can also be purchased from http://openbuildspartstore.com/lock-collar/.

Should the parts be printed in ABS or is PLA fine? I am going to start printing for this while I wait for a hardware kit to become available. Design is pretty slick!

Mine is made from PLA. If you read the build instructions you will see how I am isolating the motor heat from the extruder body with PTFE washers and tubing. It works great on mine w/ PLA.

Hi, I'm new to printing starting off with a Robo 3D and I LOVE IT I just purchased all the parts to build this beautiful Tornado but I didn't look at the carriage because I was so excited is there a way I could get this on the Robo?

I am printing what will hopefully be the final version of a Robo 3d R1+ mount right now. If all goes well I will install tomorrow and release the files on Monday.

Ok it took a little hacking, but I got the extruder part to fit into an x carriage for the Robo 3d. I have actually managed to print with it, but it isn't stable enough to release yet. The mount point is flexing too much throwing the auto bed level off. I have a new design I will be trying later this week. I will keep everyone posted.

Feb 22, 2016 - Modified Feb 22, 2016
jaystar2242 - in reply to jaystar2242

Due to the overall package size of the extruder, it is proving very difficult to fit it into the 60 mm between the two rails. If anyone else is working on a mount for Robo 3d please let me know. I would love to collaborate.

The Robo 3D has 83mm between rails, right?

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:647798

RoBo3D X Carriage Replacement
by mkelly

The Robo 3D R1+ has a space from rail to rail of 75 mm. The model walls for the barring are 4mm x2 for 8mm and the barring itself for 3.5 mm x2 for another 7. That leaves me with only 60mm between the rails.

That's so awesome please contact me as soon as you get things rolling I can't wait to build this.

Thank you for the comments. I am going to be releasing an overhead mount extruder in the coming months.

YES!!!! I just Purchased every part for this in one shot. I asked this same question on your YouTube also. I'm so determined to get this done. If your also the seller of the kits on eBay I asked there too lol. Just bought it, both kits about an hour ago. Will I be able to use some of the parts from this kit to make the upcoming design?

I order that Gear and Shaft Kit, thank

Will you make an Flex/Rubber support version?
in this revision i think this thing is not compartible yet...

Could you show me an example of what is necessary for flex/rubber support?

You'll need to constrain the filament between the drive gear and entrance to hotend, no openings.

Feb 19, 2016 - Modified Feb 19, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to tjb1

Oh, well that is done with the PTFE tubing on the hotend - take it right up to the drive gear.

Someone should make a hobbed bolt/printed gears remix of this one. 40$ for gears is complete nonsense.

GYRE - in reply to toxuin

go for it :)

Feb 18, 2016 - Modified Feb 18, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to toxuin

I understand that $25.00 for a gearset is a lot for many people, and I understand the frustration - not many of us are sitting on unlimited resources. That being said, a complete 48p precision gearset for under $25 is actually quite good, especially considering the fact that we are using a hardened steel gear for the pinion and an acetal main gear, and including the shafts and hub mount - all under the price of a good dinner. ;)

That being said, the whole purpose of this extruder design was to make a compact lightweight precision extruder, capable of both excellent accelerations and retraction accuracy. We wanted to offer to the hobbyist a nice-looking and accurate precision-geared extruder.

So, to accomplish this, we took a lightweight motor, and precision-geared it to generate adequate torque to drive 1.75mm filament (we have nearly a 5:1 differential here). And we went away from the hobbed bolt and replaced that with a precision 1.75mm drive gear.

It is difficult to 3D-print precision gears (48p and below) - maybe even impossible to accurately make ones with adequate concentricity when mounted to a hub. I cringe to think of the size of a printed 94-tooth gear with any kind of precision. This is precisely the reason we went away from the heavier "Wade" style extruders with hobbed bolts.

I know it will not be everyone's choice, but I'm hoping that many may find it that perfect balance between cost and precision.

I am on limited resources myself but am going for this build...impressive work sir and well worth the slightly higher cost to me. I love precision and am a little disappointed in the lack thereof in most of the printers/extruders being tossed around the internet. I have most of the parts printed but now my printer is teasing me by acting wonky lol...out with the tool kit for some attitude adjustment. My gears and stuff are supposed to arrive tomorrow...can't wait... may have to pull an all nighter to get the rest of my parts printed! Also trying to get an x platform modded for my Robo 3D R1+ will let you know when I have some decent progress on it! Cheers!

Did you try to use hobbed bolt + printed gears? Not 48p gears, just usual squeaky printed fishbone gears. Obviously you won't get 5:1 differential because small gear is a bit bigger when printed, but it would be $40 cheaper! Probably will still produce a lot of force, at least for >=0.4-0.5 nozzles. If you did any testing - please share.
I just do not see how paying $40 for gears is a good deal when my printer electronics was less than $20 shipped. Nope.

Feb 18, 2016 - Modified Feb 18, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to toxuin

Toxuin,

I'm trying to tackle several of the main issues people have had with Wade extruders over the years: Style, Weight, Size/Precision, Cooling and Aesthetics. I need a better write-up that explains this, so I apologize for my lack of communication.

As far as the problems to be solved, let's think this out.

Style: We went away from a Bowden and chose an All-in-one because I wanted to better control retraction, especially with more flexible filaments. Choice: All-in-one

Weight: We wanted to drive up our default acceleration, and so the total weight of the print head was a primary concern. A direct-drive solution required a NEMA-17 with high torque. These motors weigh more than my entire extruder, so we did not choose them. A NEMA-17 geared system works to generate enough torque (and this is the basis of a "Wade" style extruder) but the motors were still quite heavy and the gears are massive. A NEMA-14 was an obvious choice, provided it is properly geared (a high-differential). Choice: NEMA-14

Size/Precision: We wanted a compact solution without large gears, or heavy and imprecise hobbed-bolts. So, we went with lightweight precision gears, and instead of a hobbed bolt - a high quality MK7 drive gear. The results have been fantastic. The main gear is about 40% smaller than the typical Wade Herringbone gear, this allowed us to both protect and conceal it in a gear cover. The MK7 drive gear from Ultibots totally eliminated stripped filament, and I have yet to notice a single missed outer wall layer on any of my prints (with over 300+ hours of printing w/ the Toranado). The retraction precision has been excellent as well (no more missing spots on fill layers, etc.). Choice: Lightweight Precision Gears with an MK7 Drive.

Cooling and Asthetics: We were tired of ugly fans hanging off of the extruder body. So, we integrated the 40mm bed fan into an aesthetically pleasing duct, while also porting the 30mm heatsink air through a vent hole and out of the exturer housing. End result was a nice looking extruder that we feel can serve the community well. Choice: Integrated cooling and looks.

Again, I am sorry this does not work for you - and I'm hopeful you'll find a solution to meet your needs.

Blessings,

Wes Weber

"40% smaller" sounds awesome and all, but we're talking gears now, tiny pieces of plastic. In this case it actually means something like 5 grams vs 8 grams and 2 mm vs 3.5 mm.
About aesthetics and fans – I recognise your achievements and take my hat off to your awesome design! No doubt it is one of the best I've ever seen. However, the greatness of design is completely unrelated to it's overall cost to make. It shouldn't be, don't you think?..
It has metal hub and shaft which probably weight ~ as much as hobbed bolt anyways. It has printed gear cover for aesthetics which brings gear+cover thickness closer to a printed herringbone gear thickness.
The only logical reason to use machined gears is precision (therefore, minimal size). It will give A BIT better results since small gear is a little smaller than small printed gear and 94T gear is a bit bigger than large printed gear.
Here's a rhetorical question for everyone: would you pay $40 for that "A BIT" (extent of which we yet have to investigate) ?.. Of course it would be great to compare two designs (printed vs machined) with numbers and all, but I doubt the difference will be as huge as $40.

Feb 18, 2016 - Modified Feb 18, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to toxuin

Toxuin,

I'm not so much concerened about the weight of the gears, you are exactly right you don't save much there. The concern is primarily the weight of the motor that you'd have to use with 3D printed gears. So, the machined gears help for both size and precision.

In order to get the same torque and gear differential with 3D printed gears (19T pinion and 94T Main Gear), the gears would be large. So, to compensate for this, people typically use NEMA-17s (significantly heavier) and a lower differential.

You can happily stay with Wade. Does anyone know the history of Wade BTW - who is Wade? I have no idea. But you will sacrifice a bit in weight, meaning more inertia to deal with... etc.

Again, I am sorry that what I have here is not working for you, and I hope you find a good extruder that gives you the cost/precision ratio you are looking for.

I am sorry that I can not get my initial thought to you – English is not my native language.
I am not calling this design bad or anything even distantly related to that, I am suggesting this exact same design to be altered to fit a set of printed gears and a home-made hobbed bolt (M5? Shafts are 5mm, should be a direct replacement then). Same fan shrouds, same motor and same mount. Because I like your design!

Feb 18, 2016 - Modified Feb 18, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to toxuin

No, it is OK. I appreciate your liking and being concerned about the design.

Here is a good comparison as to why I went away from the 3D-printed gearing.

Since you need a good gear differential, you cannot get there without the gears becoming MASSIVE. The image shows a typical 47T gear and the Toranado gear with twice the gear teeth.

Great comparison! I was expecting something like this:) This now totally makes sense: you cannot get small printed gear any smaller, but seeing the difference in the main gear diameter means that your printed main gear diameter would be related to given small gear not even near 5:1, more like 2.5:1 or, optimistically, 3:1.
I would still try to customise printed gears with a small motor. I surely can fail badly, but that's a reprap way: spirit of experimenting with whatever's lying around, isn't it? :-D

Haha, you are right about the REPRAP way - and I have wandered a bit... REPRAP community, please forgive me. :)

Now I just need to get back working on my overhead mount version. It would be perfect for printers like this

Have a good day, and I hope we can keep in contact. :)

Printi4 – Large Scale CoreXY Printer
by toxuin

Hi Wes,

If you are designing one for overhead mounting I would be interested as well.
We have just ordered a E3D BigBox Dual for the office and I have plans to build my own version of it for myself and will definitaly need a good printhead for it.

Cheers

Before I begin that design - I need help with the community. Is there a basis or standard that is most common with the distance between the rods? What is the baseline to begin with?

I think there is none. I am using 50mm between 8mm rod centers, chosen pretty arbitrarily (actually based on 2x idler pulley diameter, but that is specific to my setup).
How about a parametric mount without any dependencies on the tornado side?.. Would be sweet!

Also, I wanted to add to our debate about necessity of precision gears. I just figured out that the higher the gear ratio – lower is the limit of retraction speed you can go. On printed gears you can only retract as fast as ~60mm/s, but how fast can you go with precise gears at 5:1 ratio? Just curious.

Hi Wesley - thanks for making this available firstly. I have a question regarding the shaft collar...I bought the fastener kit from you but now looks like I will need to order that one from McMaster. Could I get any 5mm bore collar but within the 13mm OD locally? I would pay the extra if you had spare and could include in the fastener kit if you have not shipped it out yet.

Most parts ordered and started printing smaller parts in PLA so looking forward to get this up and running.

thanks again!

Feb 17, 2016 - Modified Feb 17, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to cobretti

You can use any shaft collar, or you could also 3d-print one that works. The shaft collar prevents the gear assembly from backing out. Even a properly designed press-fit bushing could do this. I just used a shaft collar because I like to keep everything as tight as possible.

To answer your question, any 5mm bore shaft collar will work so long as the set-screw will contact the 50mm shaft and so long as the OD fits inside the hole in the decoration cover.

Please post photos of your "Make" I'm looking forward to seeing them.

Thank you and will do so!

Feb 17, 2016 - Modified Feb 17, 2016

Ordered the fastener kit. Thanks for offering it. Any way to pay extra to get the button head screws for the X-Carriage too?

I need to get a kit together for those, and have an option for people to order all of them at once to save money. You having a hard time finding the 22s?

Feb 17, 2016 - Modified Feb 17, 2016
krwynn - in reply to Toranado3D

Yes. In my area, finding any screw less than 4mm is like finding the holy grail. I just need the screws. Have everything else.

Bolt Depot is my best friend when it comes to metric screws. Seams like I am placing an order every few months these days.

Thanks. Wasn't aware of that site.

having trouble to get gears and hub in UK. Has anybody found the source for them?
Otherwise I have to wait for 20th from weslyweber.

Hello again Wesley

Wich nema 14 is better for this project? A 14 oz-in maybe?

Thanks

The NEMA-14 that I list in the BOM is the one the extruder is designed around. I have over 200+ hours on mine and it is still printing like a champ.

I already have 2 of these. Think one would work? http://clough42.com/product/nema-14-stepper-motor/

It'll work, just will stick out the right side a bit (it is a few mm longer than the other).

Feb 20, 2016 - Modified Feb 21, 2016
krwynn - in reply to Toranado3D

Even though I already had the 2 NEMA 14's I went ahead and bought this one from Pololu. I'm glad to see you're also using DRV8825's. What did you adjust the amps to on the trim pot? .20-.25? If you would, could you also give us a picture of your dupont connector and some orientation of how it's plugged into your board? Thanks!

The coils for the stepper is shown here

https://www.pololu.com/product/1208

This shows the pin out on the ramps board, look for the 1A-1B (coil 1) and 2A-2B (coil 2) on the area marked "E0"

Feb 20, 2016 - Modified Feb 20, 2016
krwynn - in reply to Toranado3D

Just found this (edited in the wire color):
To control this with the A4983 or A4988, connect stepper lead A (Black) to board output 1A, stepper lead C (Green) to board output 1B, stepper lead B (Red) to board output 2A, and stepper lead D (Blue) to board output 2B.

Board orientation is (left to right) 2B 2A 1A 1B. So wire colors left to right on your connector should be Blue, Red, Black, Green.

Yes, need to draw a schematic. Let me do that. My driver is setup @ .23Vref = 460mA to the motor.

Hello...

The first ebay link (Precision Gear and Shaft Kit) doesnt work for me.

It shows this message:

This listing (272135977527) has been removed, or this item is not available.
Please check that you've entered the correct item number
Listings that have ended 90 or more days ago will not be available for viewing.

Thank you

Feb 16, 2016 - Modified Feb 16, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to aventurer

The eBAY link will be available again on the 20th when we get more stock - updated the links to make them less confusing.

In the weekend i will start to make it !

Looking forward to seeing the photos. Let me know how it goes.

Have you considered counterboring the idler-tensioner bolt slots on the extruder-base to capture the M3 Nyloc nuts that adjust the idler-tension? -Could require fewer tool for adjusting

I kept it that way for easy access into the drive gear. The screws are free to slide up the slots and open the idler. If I capture the nut, Id have to back it out before I could move the tensioner. This is why I used Nyloc, so that once you set them, they pretty much stay in place.

I see that, I was suggesting you could make a slotted counterbore. it would capture the nut on two sides and allow it to still slide up and down.

Ah, good idea...

Wonder if it would be easy to print however... A goal was to have all parts printable without supports

The supports you have in the slots seemed to work well even on my little prinrbot, they might scale.

Feb 15, 2016 - Modified Feb 15, 2016

tpge-idler-tensioner
tpge-idler-wprintpad

I thought this was two version of the same part at first and printed the wrong one. Do you have versions without the printpad? maybe "-wprintpad" isn't necessary.

I hope I'm not being annoying with these little edits...

The printpad assures bed adhesion and makes it easier to print (less lifting of the print head). The print pad easily breaks off.

I was referring to the filename only. By adding the "-wprintpad" to the end I automatically assume there is another version of the file that does not have the print pad (ie tpge-idler.stl). My assumption led me to print the wrong file the first time. If it was confusing to me, it may be to others, that's all. No big.

Duplicate line:
tpge-gearprotector.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.2mm layers, 21% infill
tpge-gearprotector.stl: 2 Perimeters, 0.2mm layers, 21% infill

Fixed. ty

I'm using your recommended print settings, but wonder if you have suggestions for top/bottom/wall thicknesses. I'm printing in PLA, but if all goes well I intend to use some Carbon Fiber PLA for a final build (It's really stiff and prints beautifully).

Awesome project BTW, Cheers!

Also, I have used 0.1mm layer on the decorative pieces, and 0.15mm on the 40mm fan shroud. If you have the extra time for printing... it just gives it that extra bit of aesthetic appeal.

Looking forward to seeing some "Makes."

ON all of the samples I have printed, I am content with a 1.0 to 1.2mm shell on the top and bottom. (So If I'm using a 0.2 layer, I go 5 or 6).

Thank you for the kind comment.

I am interested in trying a Carbon fiber PLA (Wonder how self-tap screws will work in it too). If you have moment, do you have a link to the PLA?

Feb 15, 2016 - Modified Feb 15, 2016
aclymer - in reply to Toranado3D

Sweet, that's what I had my walls set to already.
"Makes" are on the way!

http://www.proto-pasta.com/products/carbon-fiber-pla

Here's a link to a Make I just finished in Carbon Fiber.

http://www.thingiverse.com/make:196007

I think the self-tapers would work great in it. Its holds M3x0.5 like a champ.

1405 300mm No Sag, Printrbot Simple
by aclymer

Will this work on a Robo3D printer?

It is possible that I may design a version for the overhead (horizontal) rods. It would be a different extruder, but the same concept. This would probably be better than taking this one and trying to create an mount, but you are all free to try. :)

Can either of you send me a good .stl file that shows the carriage/horizontal rod spacing?

Wes

The Robo has the x-axis rods mounted horizontally instead of vertically like the Prusa style. I have a Robo myself and plan to modify the mounting to hold the Toronado (hopefully LOL)

Feb 16, 2016 - Modified Feb 16, 2016
jaystar2242 - in reply to GYRE

Gyre, I plan to build a carriage as well for the Robo 3d. I would love to hear / see and ideas you may have.

GYRE, Thanks for the answer for me. Please PM me on your results when you get around to it. it looks to be a muchbetter solution than what we have now.
Thanks

Feb 15, 2016 - Modified Feb 15, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to boomer46

I'm not familiar with it... what does the mount look like?

Cool video introducing the Toranado Extruder ...
https://youtu.be/nE5W35HkDh8

Those are some of the best build instructions I've seen. Excellent work, sir! Ordered the last gear kit :) can't wait for the stl's...already printed the outdated ones lol...

I'll ship it to you Monday. :) Good luck!

How much will the springs and screws kit be....I'll just add it to the gear order to save shipping if that's possible.

I'll shoot u a msg when I figure it out tonight :)

Feb 14, 2016 - Modified Feb 14, 2016
krwynn - in reply to Toranado3D

Thanks. Can you provide links/sources for PTFE items. I hate to buy 4' of 1.8mm x 4mm for $12 to only use <30mm of it. PTFE washers too. And screws/springs. Some of us live in small towns where that stuff isn't readily available and will have more $$ in shipping than for the actual items. Actually more so for the small stuff than the main hardware.

Yes, I will be posting all that info tomorrow.

Also, there will be complete fastener kits (with the springs and PTFE items included) offered at an affordable price and to save the community on shipping. These will also be posted tomorrow.

Awesome. Thanks.

This comment has been deleted.

Update 2/14 - these are sold out, will have more posted shortly.

I've just ordered a kit. Now looking forward to building the extruder once I've finished my other projects.

Awesome, just shipped the orders out.

:)

Update 2-12-2016 - I wanted y'all to know that the modeling is complete and I'm working on the attach features for the BL Touch Bed Leveling Sensor (to be released after the 15th). I also have much work to do to get the build instructions complete, and the gear-kits available online. I'm hopeful that once I release the files on Sunday morning, we will begin to see some "Makes."

I'm looking forward to your photos and the interaction with the community.

Wes

i wanted to say ITA, sorry.
Btw which is the difference between a nema 17 and a nema 14?

NEMA 17 is a larger and heavier motor, but they are also generally capable of higher torques.

Hi! it s look' s like really a good job! and now i want to get it! i just have a problem, I'm from its and i don t know where shall i get some pices which i should buy to build it..: can i 3d print them? (otherwise in which kind of shops can i get them?)
here the links of the parts which i have no idea where i can get them:

http://www.amazon.com/Robinson-Racing-Pitch-Machined-Pinion/dp/B00681QH7A

https://servocity.com/html/48_pitch_acetal_hub_gears__1_8.html#.Vrs_n8dFRsN

https://servocity.com/html/0_770__set_screw_hubs.html#.Vrs_qsdFRsN

I'm sorry, but where are you from? You mentioned "Its"

I am working with my local post office to offer kits that can be sold at reduced shipping rates, and can be sold to the worldwide 3D printing community.

I will offer info on this on the 15th.

Thank you for your patience.

Have the parts, now need to start printing. Struggling with what colors to use. Any suggestions?

Feb 10, 2016 - Modified Feb 10, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to krwynn

The parts are being uploaded on the 15th. Sorry, but if you already downloaded them, they are incomplete and not the latest.

I can hardly wait, the Carriage for my Prusa I3 is ready.

Feb 10, 2016 - Modified Feb 10, 2016
krwynn - in reply to Toranado3D

No, haven't started yet...thanks for letting me know though. I meant printing the stl's. I should have said I had the hardware.

Oh, awesome. I like blue. :)

I have a gun metal color (blue/grey) I haven't used yet but not sure what would go good as the accent. I have some dark blue petg too I haven't used yet. I have several colors. Not good at combo's though.

I used that dark blue PET-G. It looks sweet. Print all of the base parts in black, and then just pick your favorite color for the accessory parts.

lol. Blue is my fav too. I have all these other colors and always use white, black or blue.

Thats the most cocky looking extruder ever....great job on design. If you get that kit together i will definitely order...

How does this thing do in terms of its weight? I'm very hesitant of upgrading my Bowden to a direct drive due to the fact that I've heard that requires you to print at slower speeds. Could you shed some light on this?

Feb 9, 2016 - Modified Feb 9, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to jared248371

Jared,

This is precisely the reason we went with a NEMA-14 framework, coupled with lightweight precision gears (with a near 5:1 differential). The motor weights 140 grams (about 5oz.). The entire extruder with the gearing, e3dv6 hotend, wiring, etc - fully assembled is coming in about 13-14oz.

So what we sought to do was strike that perfect balance.

Will it be as light as a typical Bowden hotend setup - with the motor and drive gear off the head? Of course not.

But will it be capable of both higher accelerations and precision than a NEMA-17 "Wade", NEMA-17 direct drive, or PG35-L?

Yes. That is the goal.

So, with this extruder, you have the benefit of the precision (MK7) drive gear being extremely close to your hot nozzle, with an excellent torque to weight ratio.

We believe we have struck the perfect balance here, and it looks nice. ;)

What are your current default acceleration settings and the mm/s of your inner and outer layers?

Could you please send me the NEMA- 14 you are working with? All of the ones i've been looking at weigh in higher than 5 oz. And i understand that this is designed to be used with the E3D V6, does this include the Lite? Again, thanks for all the help

I haven't quite figured out my highest speed yet because I'm in the process of ditching an acrylic set up to a p3 steel one. Thanks for the in depth explanation, so would you say that it is more worth it to have a heavier direct drive set up than to have a lighter Bowden? What are the advantages ?

Feb 9, 2016 - Modified Feb 9, 2016
Endlesshunt - in reply to jared248371

Much better control over the filament as far as extrusion, retraction and ooze control is concerned. Makes for much cleaner and crisper prints. Most Bowden setups have to retract 3 to 5 mm before the pressure in the nozzle starts to drop because of the slack in the PTFE tube that must first be taken up. With the extruder on the print head you only need to retract 0.5 to 2 mm for the same effect and it is that part of a second faster in doing it that stops the ooze.

Feb 9, 2016 - Modified Feb 9, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to Endlesshunt

Endlesshunt, Thank you for clarifying this.

My current settings.

Default Acceleration=500 (I have printed as high as 1750 with the Toranado, but found I was exceeding the speed that my Hatchbox PLA was designed for - it still printed well).
Inner and Outer layers 90mm/sec
Retraction is at 1mm.

I use the acceleration calculator at the bottom of this page for tweaking and adjusting.
http://prusaprinters.org/calculator/

For almost everything I want to do as a hobbyist, this is excellent speed and precision.

Just remember, it is not just the print head that makes use of acceleration, the print bed also accelerates on the Y axis and it is a lot heavier than the print head. Granted, it does have less effect on wobble is the frame but it is still there. So by making the print head lighter and pushing acceleration up is one thing but that heavy bed also exhilarates faster.

Feb 9, 2016 - Modified Feb 9, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to Endlesshunt

That is 100% true. And if you think about it in that light, an i3 printer is not the best choice for a Bowden setup - that is if your primary reason for going to a Bowden is to increase acceleration. I hadn't thought about it from that angle, but you are right .

Correct, for that the Core-XY or Core-H format is better where the print bed is stationary and the head moves in X and Y

Tha´s a nice designedone I was looking for my new printer. Looking foward all big news. Nice work!

i love this design, it's both very interesting mechanically and to look at.

  • i have an e3d v5 - would you be able to fit it into the design as well?
  • re. the inductive proximity sensors (auto leveling) - i use an sn04-n ( http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?product_id=3528 ) which is both pretty cheap (on aliexpress), very accurate (no more calibrating and re-calibrating my printer), and very easy to install (both small/short and only requires 2 side screws). would you be able to use that when planning for inductive probes?
  • i've been looking into using a rotary/optic encoded DC motor for the extruder, that might be a good solution to lowering weight even further but still getting great torque with less heat (smaller form factor as well) - i think i would be able to fit it on this extruder with a nema14 adapter plate, also something you might want to test ;)
Feb 7, 2016 - Modified Feb 7, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to thed0ct0r

"i've been looking into using a rotary/optic encoded DC motor for the extruder" - this is compelling. Do you have any info on the DC motor that I can start looking at?

I am unfamiliar with the e3d v5, it was designed around the mount for the v6

Feb 19, 2016 - Modified Feb 19, 2016
thed0ct0r - in reply to Toranado3D

sorry it took a little time to answer, work and life...
anyway - regarding the e3d v5 - this is a link to it's mechanical dimensions ( http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/File:DRAWING-V5-SINK.jpg ), i would think mostly the attachment radius/depth would have to be changed, but could you tell from that? i've no idea how to find that out from the stl files you've uploaded (only making my first baby steps with 3d/cad software now).

regarding the dc motor - i think i have a nice idea, i spent some time this week doing some testing and i think i've come up with an evolution to your solution - i mean, you set out to solve this problem by using a smaller motor, and the smaller motor means less torque and more heat which prompted the precision gears, which i like, but i asked myself why are we even using a stepper motor and of course the reason is we want to know how many mm's we've extruded/retracted. but that's one approach...
another approach i mentioned was using a simple geared and encoded dc motor (which costs just a little less than a nema 14) it has about twice to 3 times the torque, and weighs about 90grams-150grams (depending on torque/type/encoder).
but the more i though about it that approach was lacking something too - because in both cases we have no idea how much we actually extruded/retracted - we know how much we MEANT/HOPED to extrude/retract, in fact - the hotend could be blocked or for any number of reasons the gear could just be scratching/burrowing into the filament.
the only real indication of filament movement is from the idler and that's when i had the idea to use a very simple lightweight but high torque dc motor i have one that's geared, and does about 20kg/cm, weighs 95grams and costs about 5-6$ on aliexpress (model 25ga-226 with 12rpm reduction), and then use an optical encoder on the idler - i tested with a simple disk and an photoelectric encoder (like this - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/SC-speed-sensor-photoelectric-encoder-code-disk-encoder-disk-optical-encoder-for-for-Freescale-Smart-Car/32522986280.html ) but for 7-10$ you can get a really good encased on that does 400-1600 encoded signals per revolution which i think gives enough resolution for anything we might need (i have one of these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-Optical-encoder-rotary-encoder-400-lines-AB-phase-12V-DC/32249546334.html )

this way i think we can both lower the size/weight of the extruder and get a more accurate representation of what's actually happening. what do you think, is this idea getting any traction? perhaps a PGE v2? ;)

Feb 5, 2016 - Modified Feb 5, 2016

Thanks for the links! I haven't seen where the bearing size has been posted anywhere. Can we get that info too please?

Also, Amazon has these listed http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0063KWEDW?keywords=5mm%20shaft%20collar&qid=1454707844&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

is the 10mm OD a deal beaker?

I'd get the one from McMaster Carr, it is $1.73. No, 10mm OD will work.

The Bearings are 625zz. I'd get mine from Boca or VxD Bearings, they are APEC-1 rated.

Wes

Ok, thanks. The amazon version is a 4 pack, plus free prime shipping. McMaster-Carr will never quote a shipping charge but is usually around $8-$9.

Feb 6, 2016 - Modified Feb 6, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to krwynn

Good find, and the McMaster OD is 13mm, so a 10mm will fit with plenty of clearance.

Thanks for the new links, looking forward to put everything together
Regards

No problem. Looking forward to seeing these get made. Be sure to post some photos :)

Looks like a great asset for my Prusa i3 !! Checking your thing every day :-)
Is there any chance of modding it for 3mm filament ? Or is the Nema 14 not up to it ?
I'll be happy to make one and test it for you ...

I did not design the Toranado with 3mm filament in mind, and you might be asking a bit much of the lightweight NEMA 14s. One of the whole points behind this project has been to make an all-in-one solution that is capable of higher speeds. The 48p gears combined with a lightweight NEMA 14 drive the filament admirably. You will probably find that driving 3mm filament is a bit more taxing than driving 1.75mm; however, you are free to give it a shot. I would advise that when I release the files for printing, you adjust the hole diameter for the filament feed try it. One option might be to go with a higher torque NEMA 14 (but they are heavier and longer, and you will suffer on both aesthetic appearance and acceleration speeds).

Hi, this looks like a very nice extruder substitution or replacement, I may use it in a build for the summer. Sometimes I use a filament brand called ninjaflex which is flexible filament for 3d printing. I was wondering if this design guides the filament to the extruder or if the design wouldn't be able to print such material.

If you look at the photos, you will see one with the idler cover both opened and closed. There is a press-fit bowden tube that guides the filament into the drive gear, and there is also a bowden attachment on the e3Dv6. If you put an extended PTFE tube into the e3dv6, you the filament will be completely supported on both sides, with the only opening at the drive gear. This is how mine is setup and it works perfectly.

Very nice extruder. Is there any way to incorporate a slot for an induction probe? I'm using the Prusa Rework 1.5 and don't think I could live without the auto leveling.

Yes, the decorative cover on the right side.... I am designing an alternate piece for the probe.

I've been doing a lot of printing this last week (+-60hours) and found that although the build plate stays level the nozzle gap for the second print for the day is much smaller that when the printer warmed up from cold for the first print. I had to set the gap virtually for every print. I have now designed a micro ajuster for my Z axis Opto ensor (will upload it later this week) but I'm definitely looking into auto leveling even if just to set the gap accurately before every print.

I'm looking at this sensor: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bltouch-auto-leveling-sensor-for-3d-printers#/story

Cheers

I am having exactly same behavior - the gap changes over time. But in my case it increases by as much as 0,2mm for second print. Then it stays like that for consequent prints that day.

I did not know if you knew, but it is available now... I just ordered one myself!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201513073535?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I saw the BL Touch, but then realized that compared to this small compact Toranado extruder, the BL Touch seems large .. I was hoping to find a much smaller accurate sensor .. even the widely used Capacitance sensors seem very large .. there has to be something out there that is cheap, accurate and 1/2 to 1/3 the size?

I have heard of people using Hall effect sensors successfully for endstops, but this is done by moving a hall effect sensor close to a magnet. I don't think the BL Touch is a permanent solution due to the size. In the short-term, I'll probably look at a bracket on the right side to mount wither a BL touch or the most popular induction sensor on the market. However, I don't think this is optimal as a permanent solution, they are too bulky and heavy.

The BL Touch at 1/2" diameter and 10grams (0.35oz) is acceptable for me as the important feature is that it can work on any surface. It is a lot smaller and less fiddly than a servo and a micro switch. If you pull it in as close as possible to the 40mm cooling duct and cover most of it with a close fitting cover dropping down from the right top decorative cover then it might not look to bad.

My thoughts exactly! I set up an induction sensor but it did not work with my glass bed, and i found the servo sensors to be unreliable. I had been watching the progress of the bltouch for a while now and love that it is a fairly easy install and works with any surface...

Can you send me a link to the mounting info for the BL touch, and if possible - the most common induction sensor?

Feb 4, 2016 - Modified Feb 4, 2016
Endlesshunt - in reply to Toranado3D

Here you are: https://plus.google.com/113792662927481823969
Dimensions near the top and shows the relative height against the nozzle

This will give you a good idea of the actual mount itself http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1287411
I would make a slot for the wiring on the inside of the mount and rotate the sensor 180 degrees so that the pcb faces the extruder for a much cleaner look on the outside

Mount for BLTouch sensor on a Wombot

Sorry, got zero experience with induction sensors

Yup, I know, already ordered one :)

Cool! I look foreword to hearing your thoughts on it with this extruder! Or without... :P

It is going to be a long 15 day wait :)

Hi Wesley

Could you perhaps pm me the links for the gears, belt, feed gear and stepper

I have started to print the parts that you have published at this stage, looking great so far

Cheers

Also, be sure to note from the photos which parts are black and which ones are a diff color.

Got that, doing them in Black and green

I will post a Bill of material with the build instructions. Won't be long now.

Reason why I asked, I'm in South Africa and anything I order from international suppliers takes about 2 months to get here. Just wanted to get the order going

Cheers

What a beautiful design! bravo!

How have you implemented wiring routes coming from the hotend/fans/thermistor?

Yes, I have encorporated wire routing. BigCooter recently posted some photos of the extruder that he made to help me test the design, as well as a 10mm carriage he designed. If you look at the photo on this link, you will see the wire routing through the back of the Toranado.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1297618

Wes

Toranado Extruder X Carriage for 10mm rod PRUSA i3

Any chances of incorporating something like this?

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:846184

LED Halo ring for Bulldog XL mount.
by krwynn

Yes, I have considered LED lighting... still trying to figure out how to make it work with the package envelope.

Jan 28, 2016 - Modified Jan 28, 2016
krwynn - in reply to Toranado3D

Thanks! I tried to line it up a little in sketchup. It looks like it will work. Worried about how low it would hang though. Its 7mm thick so could be a deal breaker. Might be easier to make clips instead of printing something to put it in.

Exactly, I think to incorporate this, I'd have to modify the fan duct shroud with mounts for a similar ring., again making it modular so users could add it if they'd like.

Jan 27, 2016 - Modified Jan 27, 2016

Nice, add a version with 2 hotends and adjustable support for an autolevel sensor (as stated before) and it's even nicer. Don't go for a chimera, do your thing with 2 E3D's, or a diamond hotend. I a going with the chimera for my new printer, but I don't do layer cooling (replaced PLA with PETG a long time ago) so the chimera gives me a very compact setup, almost level in Y with the carriage. Technicalities aside, this is a very beautiful design, you are very skilled and I hope this is something you make a living out as well. If not, I hope you will get noticed by someone for this, and hired... :)

edit: One more suggestion to make this the default extruder for many people for many years to come: shorten the distance between drive gear and hotend inlet. This will avoid problems with softer materials (PLA will get a little softer because of the hotter-running NEMA-14) bending while being pushed trough, and enable your extruder for flexible filaments as well. Should be fairly easy to do, as filling that gap basically solves it. I did a comparable part to enable the Wade Geared Extruder for Ninjaflex: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1028388

Wade Flex Mod - modify Greg's Wade Extruder to print Ninjaflex and other flexible filaments.
Jan 27, 2016 - Modified Jan 27, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to stormychel

stormychel,

You are right in saying that the NEMA 14's run hot. :) I had to develop a technique to mount the motor to the extruder housing and at the same time isolate the heat. I have printed over 125 hours with the Toranado now, and have solved the motor heat issue without the use of a fan.

It's hard to see, but if you look at the last photo, showing the idler open, you will see how close the hotend is to the drive gear. It is very close. If I drive it any close in my current setup, it will hit the extruder idler bearing. This was a major design consideration for me, I kept the drive gear as close as possible to the e3D v6 hotend nozzle.

Ok, I'm glad you took flexible filaments into account, I was mistaken by some of the pictures :)

The NEMA 14 gets hot indeed, which might be a problem with metallic drive gears, as a warm gear will soften the filament... which is a huge problem with PLA. This is a common problem on some cheaper commercial printers. Glad you figured out how to do it right!

This comment has been deleted.

Where are you getting your gears from?

This comment has been deleted.
Jan 27, 2016 - Modified Jan 27, 2016
Endlesshunt - in reply to Toranado3D

Hi. I really like this extruder. Things must not just work well, they must also look good while doing it.

I think what stormychel meant was not so much getting the hot end closer to the feed gear but to fill the space between them with a wedge filament guide as in the link in his first post.

A second thing that will tick all the boxes for me is to exhaust all airflow from the 30mm fan away from the print piece.
I do not use PLA at all and none of the filaments that I use need cooling. Cooling actually reduce the quality of the prints.
Any cooling tend to warp the prints.

Could you perhaps make a option to replace the 40mm fan and duct with an exhaust shroud that deflect the 30mm fan cooling airflow up and away from the print, maybe split the outlet to exhaust past both sides of the carriage and up?

This way if we need cooling then we fit the 40mm fan and duct and if we don't we fit the exhaust.

Regards and congratulations on a very sexy Extruder

Jan 27, 2016 - Modified Jan 27, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to Endlesshunt

Endlesshunt,

This is something I have been thinking of for awhile - does the 40mm fan for bed cooling give any actual advantage when printing the most common materials?

And this would be a very easy thing to do, create an optional replacement part that dresses up the extruder, keeping it looking nice - but instead of 40mm fan cooling - diverts the 30mm airflow away. This is a good idea. I most certainly am looking at this.

The filament guide would be nice too. Although it has not been too difficult to get the filament into the e3D v6 hole after it passes the drive gear, it has stubbed at times. a guide would help too.

THANK YOU for taking the time to comment.

Hi

Verbatin's notes on using their ABS filament: An additional cooling fan is NOT recommended for ABS, it warps the print.
And their notes on PLA: An additional cooling fan is recommended for PLA.

I found that just the air from the standard E3D V6 cooling shroud deflects from the carriage and is enough to warp ABS prints.
My shroud is mounted in a left right direction so that the air does not affect the print.

The wedge filament guide certainly helps with inserting the filament but its main claim to fame is that it supports flex filament and stops them from buckling and jamming between the feed gear and hot end. the best solution is to have the wedge with a short piece of PTFE tube right from the feed gear to the heat break. Basically similar to a bowden setup but with the extruder mounted directly to the hot end as in your design. This will also add additional support to heat softened PLA and reduce any issues even further.

As far as dual extruders are concerned. The main reason for using a second E3D V6 hot end is costs. It is cheaper to buy a second V6 than a Chimera and does not make the first V6 redundant. If you are upgrading from a single to a dual extruder then it might be the preferred option for most people. One thing to keep in mind with dual V6s is that you must have a way to adjust the height of both hot ends separately to the build plate. The tolerances in the printed parts of the extruder and in the hot ends themselves is enough to seriously affect height calibration.

On the other hand if you are designing a dual extruder from scratch then something like the Chimera might be the better option as its basic design already addresses the calibration issues. It also minimizes size, weight and fan count. Nozzle separation is only 18mm against I believe something like 27mm for dual V6s. Horses for courses I believe

Regards

PS. The Chimera also gives you an easy way to experiment with both dual nozzles and a single mixing nozzle (Cyclops Heater block)

Yep, that's what I meant with being glad you found out how to use a NEMA-14 the right way :).

About the chosen hotend: would be nice to use the same kind of hotend for the double version, that's all.

Love it! Can't wait to make it. What X carriage is that? I also agree with a comment below that a way to connect a proximity sensor would be icing on the cake. Well done!

krwynn, the X-carriage comes form the i3 Rework by emotiontech. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:119616

But I am going to release the Toranado with it's own.

Prusa i3 Rework

The current x-carriage is the same pattern that I have seen on many i3's - it has the same pattern and mounts to the x-carriage from the i3 rework by emotiontech

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1246951

I am trying to come up with a non-bulky universal mount (for any i3 with 45mm rod spacing, and plan on releasing it when I fully release this design).

The Toranado Precision Geared 1.75mm Extruder - v1.1

Pretty ingenious idea for layer cooling there. I like that.

Thank you.

I have done some initial testing of the cooling airflow. The vast majority of the air from the 30mm heat-sink fan is ported through the hole in the back of the shroud into the 40mm fan duct (Under the central portion of the fan where there is little to now 40mm flow)... this 30mm airflow is then expelled along with the 40mm fan airflow onto the print bed.

The idea was to keep the fan ducts tightly integrated, and somewhat decorative.

Thank you for the comment.

Very nice design so far!
(Just two more ideas, which would be nice: +Dual Extruder upgrade? +hole for an inductive proximity sensor (For auto-bed levelling))

I am going to add a bracket for a proximity sensor.

gobling,

I have considered a dual extruder upgrade. At this point, I am thinking about framing it around an e3D Chimera, instead of trying to use two e3Dv6's. Therefore, it would not be an upgrade as much as it would be an Toranado Dual Extruder.

Do you have any information for me about existing designs that include this proximity sensor. I do not use auto-bed leveling, and am - in all honesty - unfamiliar with what constitutes a good or decent setup. If I can gather what is required, I'd certainly like to consider implementing this function.

Hi wesley,

there´s an example mount for such a sensor: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1278235

And here´s a nice tutorial for using and configure the sensor: http://www.instructables.com/id/Enable-Auto-Leveling-for-your-3D-Printer-Marlin-Fi/

Parametric probe holder for Wade extruder

goblingift, thank you for the info... looks like these auto bed leveling sensors are more popular than I realized.

I have always just relied on my gauge, and calibrate it ever 50 prints or so...

Wes

Jan 15, 2016 - Modified Jan 15, 2016

This looks great! I'm puzzled by the comparison to the nema 17 weight refernces.. So this one has a stepper, but a smaller stepper than the Nema 17's, or am I not looking at the parts correctly?

I'm in, by the way, I expect the preferred material to make these parts in is ABS, but any thoughts on printing in PET-G? My prints in PETg prints allwys come out looking nicer with less lifting than ABS

By the way, love the PEI sheet you referred me to. There is another guy offering something called "printbite" they say it isn't PEI, but a composite made from FR4 (fiberglass (like PCB material?) Anyways, I'm going to get some, and try it.

Kolanski, It is a NEMA14 stepper-motor, which is externally precision-geared to generate more than enough torque to drive 1.75mm filament - even in more demanding situations (higher accelerations and higher mm/s). I have successfully printed both PET-G and PLA with the Toranado, and my overall print quality has been outstanding. Yet, there is much testing yet to do.

Reducing the overall mass has helped me a lot when bumping up my DEFAULT_ACCELERATION. I always have liked my drive gear to be as close as possible to hot-end nozzle. One of the problems with NEMA17s in an all-in-one solution like this is the weight of the motor. The faster you move that mass around, the more of a tendency to wobble, etc.

In this current configuration, the entire Toranado extruder assembly weights less than my single high-torque NEMA 17 motor does (higher torque motors are needed when attempting to direct-drive). This is precisely why the NEMA17's are usually moved off of the extruder head when direct-driving filament (i.e a Bowden setup).

Here is where I feel I have a nice balance... I can keep my nozzle extremely close to the drive gear without sacrificing the overall weight.

One of the most surprising things about this setup to me was the fact that torque has not been a problem at all. The gearing worked exactly as we calculated it would. The real problem that needed solved was keeping the NEMA 14 motor cool enough (without adding another fan). We solved it.... but there were a few casualties along the way :)

Wes, As long as the casualties wee not human or beast, it sounds like a fair trade off! I can't wait for you files. If you want me to beta test them then let Matt know. Thanks again

May still be the NEMA 17 but the length of the stepper is shorter than the standard one everyone usually uses. I got one in an Wade extruder kit and is about 2/3 the length of all the other NEMA 17 motors I have and is much lighter.

cdl1701 - Its a NEMA 14. Read above^^^^

Wes, BTW, have you dialed in on the nema14 specs yet? I will need one, and since China is X+ weeks delivery, might as well get it now.

I have dialed in the NEMA 14 specs. It is a NEMA14 28mm in length rated @ 0.5A. I'll forward you a link.

Can you forward that link to me too please? Thanks.

Can you publish/send the link? I'm finding several different options for holding torque on a NEMA 14.

https://www.pololu.com/product/1208

The link is at the bottom of the page. in the BOM.

Thanks Wes, coincidentally, that is the exact page I found while googling. But it has a dropdown list for selecting the holding torque. The default seems to be 14oz/in. Is that the correct one to order?

Yes, that is the one I am using. Big Cooter sent me THIS MOTOR today and it is 2mm shorter and has more holding torque - however, I have not tested it. The link I sent you has over 300 hours of printing with no problems whatsoever, but I do plan on testing the new one.

Have you had a chance to test Big Cooter's motor yet? I ordered one optimistically but won't have the printer ready for a month or so. Would like to know if you had disappointing results with it in which case I will order the 28mm version.

Do you have any estimate when the fastener kit will be available? I have already ordered the gear and shaft kit.

Feb 29, 2016 - Modified Feb 29, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to svenyonson

I am hoping to have fastener kits up this week.

I just got the motor last night. The specification paper that came w the motor says the holding torque is 14.0oz/in. - the same as the motor I'm already using. I;d suggest using the motor that is on the BOM instead of this new one - at least until I test it. Not only is it all black (it looks better) but they are the same weight and same torque.

Is there any particular reason you felt the urge to share a link for a what seems better in every way new motor, but note you need to test it first and didn't recommend it over the original?

Is there something other than specs that would lead you to believe it needed to be tested first? Perhaps I am just biased to Stepper Online as I have used several of there NEMA 17 and 23 motors for a CNC machine and two custom 3D printers, but I was just caught off guard by your comment.

Feb 23, 2016 - Modified Feb 23, 2016
Toranado3D - in reply to alanacial

Because I just found it online today (well, Big Cooter shared the link). I have yet to test it - but I agree, it does look better in every way.

I ordered two of the "new" steppers, and have one of your parts kits in route, so I'll give them a run as well to add to your feedback and testing. I couldn't fathom a reason to not go this route, but just checking.

I got my NEMA-14 in today the "new" version. THe paper that came with it says it is capable of 14.0oz/in, not 20, so it has the saem torque rating and weight as the motor I specified for use in the BOM. However, it is shorter. Mine measures under 25mm in length.

Plan on testing it soon.

I got my two motors today as well, and they are marked "Holding Torque N.cm 14"

14Ncm = 20oz.in

Which would be an upgrade over the previously suggested. So either you got sent the wrong ones or it is possible you misread the unit of measure. I hope for you its the latter.

I am assembling the extruder t