Hello, I want to print a mass airflow adapter. I need it to withstand about 110C reliably. It cannot warp at all I have already printed this particular part in nylon that stood up pretty well but I worry once the weather gets hotter it'll fail or if I idle for too long as that can really increase the temperature under the hood or both. Any suggestions. I have heard asa or abs could take the heat better but I want to know before I print and not be out of luck on the side of the road. Also keep in mind this will be subject to tight clamping so it needs to be strong. I would not like to print abrasive filaments like carbon fiber or glass fiber if possible.
I was randomly browsing Colorfabbs filaments and found this material I never seen before called Arnitel® ID2060-HT. Apparently it can withstand 190C for 500h and 175C for 1000h. Looking at the technical data it has a Vicat softening temp of 190C for the 10N (1kg/2.2lb) load test, and 90C for the 50N (5kg/11lb) test. What this basically means is it gets softer between 90-190C but can still carry some load.
Also it is descibed as having:
"chemical resistance against exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) condensate and prolonged high temperature resistance for printing demanding automotive air-fuel and industrial applications"
and
"This combination makes it suitable for printing cold charge air ducts for demanding automotive under-the-hood applications"
which sounds like a pretty similar application to what you need. It is pretty pricey though, €84/kg, and they only have 2.85mm filament in stock.
There is also "Arnitel® ID2045" which appears to be a flexible version of the same material. It is a bit cheaper, €72/kg and is in 1.75 and 2.85 sizes.
That sounds perfect. I’ll check it out. I’m not super worried about egr gases because they get put into the manifold which is later but I am worried about pcv or positive crankcase ventilation gasses which is mainly oil and gasoline. I have a catch can on the way as I knew that could be a problem. However the pcv gasses can be really hot especially if you drive it on the highway for a long time. I really have no idea how hot they could get but seeing as how oil temperatures can get up to about the same as the engine coolant temperature I figure it’d be about there. The hottest coolant temperature I’ve ever seen is 224 f about 107 c.
Another material that could work is POM. From the info I found it has HDT around 100-110C and Vicat softening around 150C. It is notoriously hard to print though, like 100-130C printbed temps, and it will only stick to paper or cardboard on the print bed. The hotend temps are only 220-230C but any higher and it gives off formaldehyde gas which is a known carcinogen so you need a well ventilated room, and ideally a print enclosure. Also printing with PTFE lined hotends also gives off formaldehyde due to reaction with the polymer so an all metal hotend is needed.
Only a few places sell it including Gizmodorks and Hobbyking.
Depends on the particular type and brand of nylon but generally it should be ok. The vicat softening temperature of nylon filaments I have looked at are around 140C or more. That's the temperature at which the polymer softens significantly under an indentation test* (which would be similar to the load case of a compressive clamping) where it begins to deform and flow under load significantly. It will deform before this temperature just not as much so you probably want to be safely under this by 20C or more. So I would check on it from time to time to make sure it's still tight, particularly when it gets warmer, but it will probably be ok.
*There are different types of test (1kg, 5kg) done under different standard e.g. ISO, ASTM, so the numbers are not always comparable
annoyingly but I found numbers using the same tests I think.
Another measure is the HDT (heat deflection temperature) which is where the material loses a certain amount of bending stiffness (again there are lots of different test standards) and load support. In this case HDT is less important since there is little bending or tensile load from what you describe. The HDT of nylon is relatively low (50-100C) but nylon isn't very stiff to begin with.
Polycarbonate in its standard printed amorphous state only has a vicat softening temp around 110-115C so would be risky to use. It could be used if it is annealed though, as mentioned by Sergiu, it has a higher temperature resistance close to the melting temperature (e.g. 170C) once annealed. PLA can be simarlarly annealed to have a similar temperature resistance.
ABS and ASA would not be suitable since the vicat softening temps are around 95-105C. PC/ABS blends are similar.
Fibre filled materials generally have much better temp resistances, but they are ruled out as you mentioned.
There is another option made by Filamentum called Non-Oilen. This has an HDT of 119C and a Vicat softening of 150C but only prints at 175-195C (50C heated bed similar to PLA). I have no idea what the chemical resistance is like though. Also it's designed to biodegrade easily so it may biodegrade on your car lol and is a little on the expensive side
Ultrafuse PA Nylon produced by BASF has a Vicat softening temp of 172C so would also probably work well.
Hello, I want to print a mass airflow adapter. I need it to withstand about 110C reliably. It cannot warp at all I have already printed this particular part in nylon that stood up pretty well but I worry once the weather gets hotter it'll fail or if I idle for too long as that can really increase the temperature under the hood or both. Any suggestions. I have heard asa or abs could take the heat better but I want to know before I print and not be out of luck on the side of the road. Also keep in mind this will be subject to tight clamping so it needs to be strong. I would not like to print abrasive filaments like carbon fiber or glass fiber if possible.
I was randomly browsing Colorfabbs filaments and found this material I never seen before called Arnitel® ID2060-HT. Apparently it can withstand 190C for 500h and 175C for 1000h. Looking at the technical data it has a Vicat softening temp of 190C for the 10N (1kg/2.2lb) load test, and 90C for the 50N (5kg/11lb) test. What this basically means is it gets softer between 90-190C but can still carry some load.
Also it is descibed as having:
"chemical resistance against exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) condensate and prolonged high temperature resistance for printing demanding automotive air-fuel and industrial applications"
and
"This combination makes it suitable for printing cold charge air ducts for demanding automotive under-the-hood applications"
which sounds like a pretty similar application to what you need. It is pretty pricey though, €84/kg, and they only have 2.85mm filament in stock.
There is also "Arnitel® ID2045" which appears to be a flexible version of the same material. It is a bit cheaper, €72/kg and is in 1.75 and 2.85 sizes.
That sounds perfect. I’ll check it out. I’m not super worried about egr gases because they get put into the manifold which is later but I am worried about pcv or positive crankcase ventilation gasses which is mainly oil and gasoline. I have a catch can on the way as I knew that could be a problem. However the pcv gasses can be really hot especially if you drive it on the highway for a long time. I really have no idea how hot they could get but seeing as how oil temperatures can get up to about the same as the engine coolant temperature I figure it’d be about there. The hottest coolant temperature I’ve ever seen is 224 f about 107 c.
Another material that could work is POM. From the info I found it has HDT around 100-110C and Vicat softening around 150C. It is notoriously hard to print though, like 100-130C printbed temps, and it will only stick to paper or cardboard on the print bed. The hotend temps are only 220-230C but any higher and it gives off formaldehyde gas which is a known carcinogen so you need a well ventilated room, and ideally a print enclosure. Also printing with PTFE lined hotends also gives off formaldehyde due to reaction with the polymer so an all metal hotend is needed.
Only a few places sell it including Gizmodorks and Hobbyking.
Depends on the particular type and brand of nylon but generally it should be ok. The vicat softening temperature of nylon filaments I have looked at are around 140C or more. That's the temperature at which the polymer softens significantly under an indentation test* (which would be similar to the load case of a compressive clamping) where it begins to deform and flow under load significantly. It will deform before this temperature just not as much so you probably want to be safely under this by 20C or more. So I would check on it from time to time to make sure it's still tight, particularly when it gets warmer, but it will probably be ok.
*There are different types of test (1kg, 5kg) done under different standard e.g. ISO, ASTM, so the numbers are not always comparable
annoyingly but I found numbers using the same tests I think.
Another measure is the HDT (heat deflection temperature) which is where the material loses a certain amount of bending stiffness (again there are lots of different test standards) and load support. In this case HDT is less important since there is little bending or tensile load from what you describe. The HDT of nylon is relatively low (50-100C) but nylon isn't very stiff to begin with.
Polycarbonate in its standard printed amorphous state only has a vicat softening temp around 110-115C so would be risky to use. It could be used if it is annealed though, as mentioned by Sergiu, it has a higher temperature resistance close to the melting temperature (e.g. 170C) once annealed. PLA can be simarlarly annealed to have a similar temperature resistance.
ABS and ASA would not be suitable since the vicat softening temps are around 95-105C. PC/ABS blends are similar.
Fibre filled materials generally have much better temp resistances, but they are ruled out as you mentioned.
There is another option made by Filamentum called Non-Oilen. This has an HDT of 119C and a Vicat softening of 150C but only prints at 175-195C (50C heated bed similar to PLA). I have no idea what the chemical resistance is like though. Also it's designed to biodegrade easily so it may biodegrade on your car lol and is a little on the expensive side
Ultrafuse PA Nylon produced by BASF has a Vicat softening temp of 172C so would also probably work well.