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Print Quality Troubleshooting

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Can anyone help understand how to resolve or what can I do to try solve this two print problems?

  • first and most important, the strange bad quality only on the bottom of the boat and mostly only on one side
  • second, what can I try, if I can, the small stringing still visible on the boat cabine

Layer height : 0.12
Print speed : 50mm/s
Nozzle temperature : 200°
Bed temperature : 60°
Filament BQ PLA Black 1.75mm

What else can I say it may be importante?

Thanks!

finally it was worth it. the best multi colors result that I have managed so far, with purge bucket.

cool.
right now i'm testing your profile with prime tower but i'm still having some stringing...

Nice. Much better than your benchy above. Just tweak and fine tune everything.

I already increase the retraction to 7mm, what else can I do?

about your photos, it appears to be a god reasult but is it the really max quality? it appears, from the foto, compared to my ender 3 print quality it should be better, no?
I will print it too with the A10M and the Ender 3 for comparison.

hi, see if there's anything to it if you raise the temperature again if you press too cold the pressure in the nozzle is higher and this can also lead to stringing.
I have between 3 and 6mm retraction with most filaments. more rarely makes it better. and as Timberland says with z-hop I have more strings.

to your question. no, this is by no means the maximum quality the printer can deliver. I have achieved much better results with abs and petg. but now the pla halt must be consumed.

try different retraction lenghts and speed. more retraction isnt everytime better. also the travelsped and the nozzle temperatur does affect stringing. in your case the black PLA is finde tuned, but the red seems so make problems. i would start with a higher travelspeed, the retraction lenght and then temp. did you print a temp tower with the red PLA`?

I already lower the print temp to 195. I will print a string test and temp tower to confirm but i'm not getting any stringing with my ender 3 with same filament.
From the result, i'm not convinced travelspeed will solve the problem since it appears to be stringing from the print outwards, not during travel... maybe z-hop higher?

the ender has a total different hotend. so your setting wont work. if this would work we all would use the same settings and no one is fighting against stringing... ;-) z-hop made more stringing for me....try it out!
Travel speed is well important. try it with nuttella and a spoon. put it in and take it out slowly and then try it fast. ;-)

i know that, but the filament is the same, shouldn't the filament behave the same way?
right! i got the idea. I will test without z hop and higher travel acceleration (it should be acceleration instead of speed right? because that acceleration is what will cause the string to break right?)

"it should be acceleration instead of speed right? because that acceleration is what will cause the string to break right?"

Speed = how fast the movement is
Acceleration = how fast the desired speed is reached.

so of course does accelerationi affect the retraction because it could be that some travel ways are too small to reach the desired speed.
i had a huge difference between acc 500 and 1000, especially when printing small objects.
if the acc is set too high you risk layershifts and unclean prints. so a good value is between 500-1250, depending on your printer.

hello,
I already try so many different settings... I dont know what more I can try to reduce this stringing.... :S

The second picture looks a little better. What would be the differences in the settings between picture 1 and 2?

My current print result. I still have to do a PID tuning then it should be perfect.

The only diference is the Z hop, 0 for the one written NO Z Lift and 0.6mm for the other. I try to increase even more bit the result is similar...
For one color prints I think it's OK, the problem is the 2 colors prints. Could you do the string test just to compare?

Yes, I can do the string test. How hot did you print? How much retraction?

I printed with 6mm retraction at 20mm/s at 195º.
you can check all my settings in the config export from PrusaSlicer

Send me your gcode file. I will print the same file. And I send you mine if I did it.

I can't print yours. Which FW have you installed? Do you use UBL and a BL Touch?

why cant you print it? I used slicer PE. The A10M is brand new, stock firmware no addons

When I start printing, the print head on the right tries to drive out of bed.

your printer is the A10M or A20M? I have the bed set to 235x235

Did you try the gcode?

hello,
I just finish print your gcode and for some reason I did not have string problems like before, it is mutch better and the small string can just be ignoreded.... youre using S3D right? it really must be something in the profile then!

looks much better! No I am not using S3D I am using PrusaSlicer2.0

But as noticed the konfig export function doesn't work properly.

I can take pictures of all my settings and send them, so you can set it yourself.

Yes please let's try that. One more thing, can you send me the gcode of the smaller string test I send you just to confirm we are comparing apples to apples?
Thanks!

PS : send picture of the plate too, mine printed the tower on the side front of the plate, did you put it there?

Yeah, I put the tower in the front left corner. I try to take the pictures of the settings tomorrow. And I upload your gcode again.

hope you can do it today :P at least the settings pictures to run tests today.

i've looked through the file. it's all there. if you use the new version of Prusa slicer (2.1), the import may work

Hello, not yet, did not had the opportunity. But I probably print it today.

Please try that temp tower. Post a picture.
you see stringing in the too high and too low temperature range. none in the middle.

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Only with z Hop you won't get rid of the stringing. It is always the combination of temperature, speed, retraction, and an adjusted extruder.

yes I know but the z hop was the only setting that make some difference :S
I try increase the travel speed, retraction length and speed, even temperature but the result was always similar with the photos

z hop on PrusaSlicer is the "Lift Z" option in "Retraction" seccion? if it is, is already at 0. I will try to change the current 7mm at 30mm/s to 6mm at 45mm/s to see the diference

yeah thats the z-hop. ok good luck

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Hi,
I know the problems well. I had to adjust the estepps first. Have you already done that?
Then increase the retreat against the stringing and possibly the temperature to 195°.
With that you should definitely get better results.

And then we see further :)

Hello,
I was able to improve the quality with my Cura profile but I still have problems with multi color. What slicer do you use?

I use prusa slicer and sometimes pathio or the cura engine in repetierhost. But mostly prusa slicer 2.0.
Personally I don't like Cura, But it is a matter of taste.

Which problems with dual colour do you have?

The color swaps do not print clean as it should. I read online Cura is not good with that printer because it is not really ready to the 2to1 extruder... I will install prusa slicer and try it. Wold you share a profile?

Do you use the prime tower? Yes I will update this "https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3806819" with my profile

I also try to implement the purge bucket, but at the moment it won't work with my A20M. I couldn't get the nozzle move to x-10 at toolchange.
It won't go further than x0 but this is still over the printbed. But I will find a solution someday

I did try the prime tower and shield.
I also did try to implement the purge bucket but i'm getting similar results to the towers....

did you try M211 S0 to disable the boundaries?

I'm going crazy, how did I miss that?
it works! thanks.

I include the user g-codes for Prusa slicer in the configuration files of the cleaning script

attached a picture of the current print results, still not perfect. in singel color mode the results are much better, no stringing.
Prusa Slicer with cleanup script. dual color and mixing in one model

the layer height is 0.25 that's why it's so rough

Really really good print quality! cant wait to try your setting! could you please tell me more details? You installed prusa slicer and added the linked profile? what did you more?

yes i made this profile for Prusa Slicer.
but i have to say that this is not the cure-all. i also have to adjust the settings for each new filament in terms of speed, retract, and temperature. i also play with z-hop depending on the filament.

i currently have a roll of red PLA from Filatex, so i have some stringing again. on the other extruder i have a silk pla from geeetech which shows no stringing, but i have to set the flow rate to 90% and lower to avoid overextrusion.

Thanks for the explanation! I calibrated e steps and tried several retractions settings & speeds but i think i also have to reduce the extrusion multiplier a bit. usually i print with white geeetech pla oder white janbex. the prints will be fine but could be better. if i use black geeetech pla i have to reduce the extrusion multiplier to below 90% to get a proper result. thats really strange sometimes....

would you please upload your files again? the .ini seems to be incomplete...

I tried several times. There is an issue with the export in prusa slicer. But you can open the ini with notepad++ and take everything you need

glad to help :D

the cleaning script, what is for?

I think the result are fine for the printer. can you print the bency in dual color with prime tower to compare results?

thanks!

The cleaning script is there to remove the multi-material settings from Prusa slicer for the MMU units of Prusa.
The best thing is to have a look at the original Thing

I'll see that I print a benchy with tower next week.

That benchy of yours was dual color?

thanks.
is was single color. I will print a duo color with prime tower too to take photos and I will report back

Stringing: you should do this: https://github.com/caesar1111/Geeetech-A10M-HotEnd-Maintenance/blob/master/A10M_HotEnd_Maintenance.md
print quality: The original hotend of Geeetech is crap. consider changing it for an chimera/cyclops from aliexpress. also please check if your nozzle is damaged (maybe due to crashing it into metal clips?) and check the movement of the z-axis in these area.... are all wheels tight to the frame? is anything loose?

I had an A10M recently until it said Hello to my little friend the trash can! In the two months that I owned it, It had major layer shift issues that required a new stepper motor, and two pulleys. Oozing issues which I thought were fixed until the head clogged beyond repair and had to be replaced. A wire was pinched inside the case and caused the hotend to go thermonuclear. Another new hotend ordered. This head lasted one print and clogged again. It turns out that the quality of machining inside the head was so bad that there was a major ridge inside the left side which did not allow the tubing to seat fully. I did manage to get a half a dozen or so good successes, it tended to clog or pop fuses every other time that I used it. The garbage truck is having lunch as we speak and a new Ender 3 resides in its location. My advice to anyone who wants to print multi-color is use a single color machine and print the pieces individually using Meshmixer to break them out or use and airbrush with white pla. Much less stress and wasted money.

nearly the same happened with an Ender 3 which was bought by a friend. we in germany say you had a "monday model" which means you had a faulty thing that somehow passed QC. for me my both geeetech printers work really well. the MeCreator2 is stable and precise. the A20M is more luxury with dual color, better bed and offer way more volume. i love them both.

Hello,
Thanks to the comment =D
The printer is brand new, I don't think there is a problem with the nozzle because I did print a 20mm xyz cube before the benchy and I did not see those problems. Any way, just to be sure I check the belts and I think they are fine but I strength them anyway. I don't see anything lose, everithing seams in place...

Don’t only check the belts. Check also the whole printhead and of the nozzle can bei moved in any way. Also have an eye on the z axis connection. These two screw were loose and I had nearly the same issue.

I was checking the print again and it's almost like the skin line is missing and not z wobble... What could it be? Retraction?

Hello again =D
I was able to improve the quality.
I check every axis and lower the nozzle and table temperature and I got this results attached.
But I still have that z axis artfacts... I already remove that top bearing support and even invert the Z axis screw but I get the same woble exactly at the same height which is strange to me =/

And I think I will try to lower the temperature even more, the bottom is still a little bit burned...

If you slide the bed back and forth are you feeling the thump of wheel flat spots? that could cause some of the shifting.

How about your printer bed? does it feel loose and can be wiggled? please check the wheels under the bed. are all tight to the frame? has every wheel connection to the frame or hangs in the air? how about the nozzle? even fastened?

I defenitely think it has something to do with the z-axis. I will explain why: The issues occur ONLY in the first layers. so lets imagine how the z-axis will move BEFORE the print starts. It will home the z-axis by moving from up to down. after that it will move up from bottom for printing the layers. so there should be a slightly play somewhere with an amount of 1-2mm which is equal to the height of these issues. So i would try to move EVERYTHING which is connected to the z-axis a bit up and down. beginning from the motor (is the motor fastened?) to the connector for the screwbar, over to the connection to the horizontal metalframe and then over to the wheels, after that to the printhead, to the hotend inside of the printhead.

If finished with no result: check again. :D

P.s.: see the attached picture. I had similar issues, but not that much. But it looks like the same.

PS : Timberland, that burn in the bottom on your photo locks exactly line the burn in my benchy did you solve it? why only in the bottom?

hello all,

after a days of tests ... :

  • about the bed axis, I can see any bumps or something out of the normal
  • about every axis, I have check them and I cant see anything wrong, booth belts have tension and the Z axis is not losse
  • about the nozzle, I check both extruders and they extrude normally when I manually check using the LCD to move them
  • about the Z axis I already try to invert the screw upside down and ...

after that I reprint a new benchy and :

  • the new benchy lock exactly the same as before
  • the "burn" at the bottom is still there... I print at 190º and bed at 50º (55º at first layer)
  • the horizontal "lines" are at the same spots and they are not bumps, its the inverse, almost like if the line was not printed and it is like that all around the benchy at the same level... if it is Z wobble wold it do that? I already reduce retraction to 5mm at 25mm/s

I could try to swap the Z axis with a new one but... even after rotate it upside down its shown the same lines at the same spots... could it really be Z wobble??

(in one of the photos its possible to see on the back of the benchy the start of the missing line causing the horizontal lines)

I asked some guys in a 3d printing whatsapp group about your problem. all guys think that something is loose, either the bed or the z-axis. it also can be possible that your thread is damaged. but if you already have turned the threaded bar upside down and the issues remains it couldnt be point....

i fixed my problem as i told you before: i tightened the two screws that you can see in one of my pictures at the z-axis.

hello again.
so, for some reason my printer stop at middle print but it was enough to compare the bottom of the ship.
FOTOS :

  • complete benchy sliced with Cura
  • alfe benchy sliced with MatterControl
  • RED benchy sliced with Cura and printed with my Ender 3

so... I cant say the quality even compares to my Ender 3 print because it is sooooo much smoth but there is a big diference between the sliced with Cura and the MatterControl witch tends me to belive that major horizontal artefacts are related with some setting in Cura not coperating with my Geeetech A10M...

I still have that defects like burned in the bottom any idea about that?

I cant say that benchy did not printed as smooth as my Ender 3 because some Z wobble, but that horizontal artifacts are not from Z wobble for sure...

Any Cura profile that I could try?

How about a red benchy from your A10M, just to ensure that its not the filament...?
Do you have two filaments loaded in your A10M?

its not the filament... :S
I do have 2 filaments loaded but i'm using only one (1st / left one)
I even try to disable retraction, just in case, but no change other that stringing on top...

I can do that, but its the same brand. In any way, it may achieve the final smooth quality but I wold love to know what wrong with my Cura settings :S at this point it may even be the temperature since I crank it down because of the burn effect in the bottom...

thanks.
With something loose isnt strange that the strange horizontal defects are always in the same spots? I will try to swap the belts orientation too, if the "lines" remain in the same sponts cant be the XY axis right? I will change it at the same time with the Z axis screw to definetly validate or not that option.

Now i'm printing the benchy sliced with MatterControl instead of Cure to confirm if it is hardware or software problem...

If after all that I did not solve the problem I will replace the Z stepper motor and print another benchy....

If I still did not solve the problem after all that I dont know what else I can do :S

new try with 0.12 layer height... much smooth finish but the defects are still there at the same heights...

printed with brand new Z axis screw and only 1 line wall with thinkness of 0.4mm.... problem still there... =(

just printed again 1 line wall only after rotating the Y (bed) axis (vertical flip) and the result is exactly the same... it must be something in the Cura options???

I have two ideas:

  1. Could it be a temperature problem? the marks at the lower layers may be printed too hot. the "smaller" layer maybe too low. Its just an idea but maybe you can have an eye at the temperature while printing? ba the way: how are your print Temps/speeds?

  2. the effect of "tighter" layers could also be caused by a low underextrusion. you can try this by yourself if you reduce the flow from 100 to 90 while pritning. So the failures could be produced by your extruder. Did you already calibrated your extruder? It is an A10M, right? Are the extruder steps at 340 or 430? If 340 are set ist a typo by the manufacurer. Correct it to 430 and try again.

Did you already tried to get help at the geeetech facebook group? the guys there are really good and even the support of Geeetech will help you there. There is a discord channel where you can get support too.

hello,

1 - from cura I have it all at the same temperature, and i'm not so sure it is a temperature issue, the defect are more like a pattern... my temps is 195º, 55º at the bed. I will check the temp during print anyway.

2 - if it's underetrusion how is it possible to append always at the same layers? even when printing only 1 line wall and 0% infill? I already calibrate my extruder and 450 appears to be the best value. My steps are : X : 80, Y : 91, Z: 400, E : 450

Yes it's a A10M, what is the geetech facebook group? I dont use discord but I can try, do you know the group?

Thanks!

yeah, vertabreaker discord channel is as great as its firmware. but i think you should have proper results without marlin 2.0.x....

yes, normally it should work with marlin 1.8... :S

does any one have a Cura profile I could try?

Go in the facebook groups and look in the files section there. there are some good profiles.
But to be honest, I dont think thats an slicer issue. I couldnt imagine how this regulary issues could be produced by slicing. I think more in the hardware way...
To prrof this: print the demo file on the SD card that came with the printer. will it be printed correctly its a slicer issue, if not its a hardware issue.