i do small on demand 3d printing services and i write "you can submit your own 3d models, files from thingiverse or other sites for us to print"
i wonder if this is wrong? since i dont put up any designs up (apart from my own), and let them chose what they print & charge accordingly to the amount of material spent
and if i want to put up & sell their designs im only able to pick the ones that doesnt have "non-commercial" attributes and put the link for the thing there, is this right?
since i've seen some other sellers at online marketplace i sell that sells models that doesnt have "non-commercial" attributes and didnt even bother putting the link/source
do enlighten me since i'd like to know more about CC & how people on thingiverse thinks about it
I heard that there has been plagiarizing sites and I am about to pull them off the shelf and wipe them out.
Design something that will be self-destructive and send it to them for them to make. You can thank me later when they are gone.
Because I already did.
On ebay there is the same parasite active too: https://www.ebay.com/str/3D-Pyro-Prints selling the models shared under CC and using the original pictures from the designers here therefore.
Neither the vero-team from ebay nor thingiverse or makerbot were willing to support the enforcement of the CCs rules. I only got featureless and ridiculous answers from all parties.
As a consequence I removed all my downloadable design files here from thingiverse because im not willing to feed such parasites and thingiverse is not able and willing to protect our rights.
So I'll in future share my models only on demand and only with members already shared own models here. It*s a shame how thingiverse and ebay acts.
3D pyro prints seems to have been shut down. they don't have anything on their ebay page
I continued the dispute with ebay vero-team giving them the example from Just3DPrint who finally had to take back his offers for items violating the CC license too.
I believe that this may have been the reason for the shutdown of 3D pyro prints.
But because such a dispute is a high effort and a frustrating process I'll keep the practice to avoid sharing my designs here for free and only send them on request to members sharing their designs too. Especially because, like ElmoC explicates, there will also in future be no kind of aid in part of thingiverse or makerbot for the members to enforce the CC rules even if makerbot itself sounds different: https://www.makerbot.com/stories/news/your-rights-when-you-upload-to-thingiverse/
But I didn't experienced this kind of aid and so don't believe on it.
While eBay could/should take the models down at your request, neither eBay or Thingiverse has the authority to enforce your copyright claims. It is up to you to fight them since they are yours. I know there are a lot of comments in this thread, but it was one of the subjects that was discussed.
If the evidence of a violation of the CC license is not sufficient for ebay to stop further violation and the license often is not justiciable the CC itself is worthless and removing the shared objects is the only possible conclusion of this issue.
I'm not a big enterprise able to sick a crowd of lawyers on every little seller using a wrong word or picture.
Again. It is not eBay or Thingiverse responsibility to enforce your copyright. They have no legal grounds to do so. You are the one with the responsibility to enforce your claims. You are the one that must pay for legal action, not others. If you can't afford to, then you can't enforce your copyright and it is your copyright that is worthless. It is not eBay or Thingiverse to conclude if an object is in violation.
We currently have several people dealing this shop here https://www.etsy.com/shop/3DPyroPrints not even providing their own photos and grabbing from Thingiverse's makes section. He's been quite hostile in his responses and has been reported to etsy multiple times. Goinog by a similar username here on Thingiverse. Could use some assistance if possible.
Once again, little surprise that most things he stole are franchise-related stuff that's difficult to defend in the first place.
He just added this to his Etsy posts...
"Disclaimer: This is a 3D-printed finished product. Due to the nature of additive manufacturing (FDM) minor artifacts may form in the final print and may require post-processing. Legal: Non-commercial licenses found on websites like Thingiverse do not apply to finished goods but only the selling of the downloadable model. Any similar likeness of this 3D-printed merchandise or pictures used is merely coincidental."
It looks like he also has a website but it is under development: https://3DPyroPrints.com
Should we try DDoSing it?
♫♬♫ Let's take him to Thingy Town ♫♬♫
Someone is at it again and is illegally using my design (and the picture I posted on thigiverse) below is a link to their "company" facebook page. Anyone who has posted starwars cosplay should probably take a quick browse and report them to facebook.
Star Wars? Aren't likenesses part of Lucas Arts intellectual property? I was unaware you could copyright something that was already copyrighted or trademarked by Disney. They definitely can't use your pictures though.
First it belongs to MKotsamanes then Lucas Arts. If MKotsamanes isn't making money off of it they will go after "Sky Castle Customs." What a boring name. What I don't get is how Thingiverse is able to make money off of ad revenue?? That's why I use ad-block.
I post this message here as a SOS message
Actually i made a clock frame myself on Solidwork, someone called Julianashcroft claimed out of nowhere that clock is his work and reported my work
Actually my work is blocked and with all the counter notice i made nothing happen, my work is still blocked
The fact is that our two clock are enterly differents exept one flower that is a LYS flower is on my work he claim my work as him... I'm deseperate about this
Honestly, given the recent featured items, the amount of staff that either quit or were fired,the bugs..... it's not looking good for this place.
It's sad to hear your original work was the one that was marked as his, this is not right and sadly you are going to have to provide a stupid amount of evidence to have your case heard.
I recently have the same feeling. But it feels as if it is not only Thingiverse but the whole 3DPrint community going through a change as it grew more popular. Not sure where all of this is going.
That's why I got rid of my makes. I don't think anyone should have them but me because I made them. It's sad Thingiverse and MakerBot makes ad revenue from this website and doesn't share ad revenue with creators.
So looking at Julianashcroft account, they only have 3 designs only one of which is a clock face. If the flower in question is the fleur-de-lis, that image/shape is not copyrightable and I doubt the base clock face can be protect. I don't know when all this went down, but if it was over the weekend, give Thingiverse a little time to get caught up.
Sadly it is because the flower is also present in my work that my Clock frame is blocked, There is a huge fleur de lys on my clock with text and other how the hell can my thing be blocked and banned before even checking the reasons of it, i send like 10 mails and get answered only two weeks later but throwing me like a ping pong ball into nowhere asking me things and proof of my work that i gave them !
How do you know there is huge purge at the 3d print community ?
And about all that change, i'm from france and don't have the same chance to get information about all of this can you light me please ?
I'm not sure, but I think the receiver of the challenge (Thingiverse) has 10 days to respond and if they don't, they could be in violation of the DMCA. I'm not a lawyer and this is just from memory and could be completely wrong.
So unless you have lots of money to fight this with a lawsuit, there is not much you can do. You could try writing to the board of Stratasys (owner of Thingiverse) and voice your concerns.
You could also just recreate and submit the project again.
I would like to recreate and republish it but this will be an eternal loop with an idiot that can ban everything he want, and i don't wanna waste energy and money to go in lawsuit against morons.
I'm concern about those few people who liked my thing and that i appreciate the support it give me. ANd so that they added this in their collection.
What make me sad is that we can't blacklist someone personnaly on thingiverse.
Just post it again and added comments about the fleur de lys cannot be copyrighted. See what happens. Also comment how you have challenged the original take down and have not heard back.
Depending on how black listing was implemented, it might only prevent you from seeing anything that person does and stops them from commenting on your objects. Probably wouldn't prevent them from seeing your objects.
Well i owe you a thanks for your answers
People of Thingiverse,
we need a class action lawsuit
It amazes me that anyone thinks a software license covers what is made using the software. If that were true NO one using Windows or OSX could ever sell anything they make using their computer. A software license covers selling the software ONLY. If you do not like the idea of SHARING then you should simply not share anything. If you do like enriching culture and adding to the world then share everything with an open license. You will never again feel like you have lost anything and instead feel like you have given something wonderful to the people of the world. Adding restrictions in the form of a software license to a piece of hardware you intended to allow anyone and everyone to have is crazy. If you are trying to prevent someone from selling your file on a sites like GrabCad then I understand but make it clear that it only covers selling the files not what was made using them.
I realize this was some time ago, and a fairly moot point...but I've never been one to shy away from breaking up the special snowflakes kumbaya. I have to wonder the irony of how many people who have chinese rip off printers...who design worthless(or nearly so) things, then cry when people rip off said worthless things...then complain and say they wont release anything else or they'll sell it...such sad little snowflakes...When I release things to the public domain its just out there, because Im smart enough to do something worthwhile for a living and I design things for fun(granted I dont list many things I design, but not because of any other reason than the designs I create are often based around very specific parts I have on hand, and some are awaiting proper documentation). If anyone ever even wanted to steal anything I've made(which once again i doubt) let em...let them make them and sell them, doesnt hurt me in the least...sure it can hurt the spirit of the CC license but not even makerbot fucking cares about CC...sure just3dprintit is a sue happy cunt, and a piece of shit. But holy shit if you whine when you design something so stupid and simple as a fucking controller bump protector gtfo with your whinging when someone sells it...dont whine and say you wont release anything else...thats how open source dies...I also love how all of the worthless trinkets people are whining about on here cant even touch some of the coolest open source printers and other cnc machines... I dont hear those guys whining...
That's bullshit. When you make something, you have the right for people not to claim it as theirs and sell it for profit. Unless you specifically say "this is public domain, anyone can sell it" it's proprietary.
I wouldn't upload anything else either if people were taking my work and selling it. If people stealing work how open source dies, then that's how it dies.
I just wanted to say good luck to everyone and I hope that as a community of makers and artists we can come together to overthrow those who violate our designs and sell them without any credit or permission.
Anyone had problems with Makexyz.com ? I'v just found my design being sold for £373.79 !!! I did not give permission for them to sell this design :( look !! https://www.makexyz.com/3d-models/order/af14826cac103c7098d6dbf691977777 , https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:991811 HELP!!
Oh. Another thing. Your license is less restricted than the one you remixed it from, so you were in violation of the original licensing. Also, did you have a license from MSI to use their logo? If not, your model could very well be in violation of MSI's Trademark.
According to your license, you did not put the Non-Commercial restriction on it so they are allowed to sell it.
But at the price they are asking, I doubt they will sell any. Changing the license now wouldn't do any good either since they would be bound by the license at the time the files were acquired.
The only thing you can complain about them doing is not giving attribution, something that they could fix really fast if you filed a complaint against them, but they probably wouldn't bother.
Very nice layout and superb written content , absolutely nothing else we want. http://messehotel-frankfurt-oder.de/
Just a smiling visitor here to share the love (:, btw great style and design. “The price one pays for pursuing a profession, or calling, is an intimate knowledge of its ugly side.” by James Arthur Baldwin.http://zuraltenoder.de/
I wonder if instead of just killing the opportunity to obtain 3D printed parts by just closing sales, done against our will, maybe we should form a group where we share files with a group as a whole and those who share files they made themselves they get to print anything from the pile of objects in the group, not sure if we could form such a group or hide the files from outsiders here or not but I am sure we could form one somewhere else, and do the same thing, that way if we as a group see something from the group repository, we can contact them if they did not display their user name, and get it, and if they do, contact them on the hidden group using that username to verify they are infact who they claim to be to keep it honest and still allow everyone in the group to make money to support our hobby and expose others to just how awesome the stuff we are making is, so they might get the bug to buy a printer too ,expanding further the community?
Great job! This is to you and the entire community.
Just seen this on Etsy.... https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/ThatGrinder
So, so sad.....
Complete rip off of my thing breaching all of the licence.... http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1682040
I'll let you know how I get on...
Problem solved after a message to the seller, appealing to what was left of his morals. Result :D
Good for you.
A little background information of my story is that I had a design of mine advertised for sale on a RC website for sale, I was contacted by a member of that forum that recognized my design and he contacted me to report it, I contacted the website admin and I had the advert removed by them.
I came across this guy last week selling a design from thingiverse on eBay and out of respect for the work involved and with what had happened to me I contacted the original designer (jeff) to ask if it was his for sale advert placed on eBay. What caught my attention was the advert clearly used the same images the designer had used to post his design to thingiverse.
I received a message from the designer within hours saying thanks for the headsup and that It was not his eBay advert and that his designs were clearly being sold without his consent and that he had contacted the seller who Indeed removed the advert from ebay.
My daughter is looking to buy a htc vive vr headset and she came across an advert with Images of a design that I and makers of my design had created for the protection of the controllers and she contacted me to let me know, I followed the link she sent and yes you guessed it It's the same guy who had clearly stolen jeff's design and Images that I had reported to jeff a week earlier.
I was looking through his webstore and he Is also selling other works from designers right here on thingiverse with the original designers images again used in each ad.
If you look close my wife is a photographer and she watermarks her photo's as you can see in the bottom left hand corner of my design Images.
As you can see a complete rip off with no respect for other peoples work.
I have a load of new designs I wanted to add to thingiverse but after seeing this I'm going to hold them back for now and consider my options.
Any suggestions?? as I have not contacted the seller just yet as he will only move onto someone elses design.
BTW His facebook site has loads of other designs taken from here too.
And more steeling on large scale http://3dmag.org/en/market/filter/page95/
There are tons of copyrighted designs from designers all over Thingiverse. To state some http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1084182, http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1385312, http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1168292
and here(https://www.o-print.de/produkte/) they are selling my design (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1338488): I contacted them several times and the other designers did so as well, they don't react at all. This makes me sooooo angry.
I am currently working on a Lego compatible bot, but now I am also not sure if I want to post it.
Really what are you gonna do? I only spent 5 seconds on that site and found all my models, all credit removed etc etc..
But im not going to lose sleep over it you know why? you only found one. There is 1000 more like it, you just haven't found them yet.
One site goes down, 10 more pop up in countries where you have very little chance of doing much about it -really, the only thing you can do is not give away models.
this guy for example...http://3dmag.org/en/profile/hedin/created/market/
he's beyond being a douche, what do you do with people like that? thingiverse couldnt even take them down I dont think
Yeah I actually thought the same but still it makes me angry, can't help it :( maybe because I liked the way the 3DPrint community started out, but then again, that's what happened to the internet, that's what happens to designers etc.
Probably my little robot, will only be found as images then on my website and I'll only post stuff here that I do not care that much about, though it is sad, not to be able to give back to the community, at least the ones with respect.
Hey I hear you it angered me for a while but it became literally impossible to stop or even try and attempt to stop. If I have a model that I am particularly attached to now, it gets sold, if I dont care what people do with it, it gets uploaded here.. I really dont know how else to work now.
I guess I am currently at exactly that stage you were, just getting used to this. Thanks for the words!
like I said in my previous comment we need to form a group that will respect each other and do a trade for trade sort of deal, either sharing models in the community or give some money and credit to those who made the model from every object sold from our printers, and hide the group so the models we actually do care about dont get ripped off like they do here :(
I am yet to post any of the models I made but this is just making me more hesitent
This site: http://www.protoshopdesigns.com/shop/dna-pencil-holder
is selling my thing: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1803253 :(
What bugs me the most is that they are using it without permission or due credit. Also, I'm not sure about the business model of this site. The contact us page is conveniently broken.
Life goes on...
The guy I just posted about has a facebook site with an image of your design too I knew I had seen it before.
Try contacting square space considering they are the website host
Jimbotron: I've found a way for you to contact the site administrator. Go to http://www.contactprivacy.com and enter protoshopdesigns.com into the box. This will lead you to a contact form. You can contact the site administrator from there. I'm going to reach out to them as well. It seems that they've intentionally made contact difficult... hm...
Although I am no help in this situation, If I were you, I would change your license type on the Helix. Currently you have the Creative Commons - Attribution license, which allows anyone to Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format, Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.
However, they must also give credit, which I do not see them doing, so they are in the wrong for doing so.
Hope this gets evened out for you!
Ok this is weird, I stumbled upon this Serbian webpage http://www.3dgallery.ir. They seem to imitate Thingiverse and have lots of the Thingiverse designs uploaded by their users. My anchor towel holder for example was uploaded here without any credit.
I stumbled upon this by using an image searcher (you just give a foto and this searcher will give you pages with similar or equal images.
I just added one of my design images for testing and poof, found this page.
I ran it through the google website translator, guys you should check if there are more designs from here, that have the license ignored, my licenses are non commercial but still have the "attribution" and "shareAlike".
What do you think about this side?
I have checked the site a bit more there are tons of designs from Thingiverse without giving credit or respecting licenses in any way.
Why the hell would you post this here? #NobodyGivesADamn
Just flag it as spam since that is what it is. They are just trying to advertise for some quack. MAYBE Thingiverse will actually do something if enough people flag it.
You know, I never read the whole thing. Just noticed this at the end... "I have got back my lover…James,and he has filed for a divorce with the other lady he married. #HappyToBeBackWithJames." So it sounds like this is an ad for how to be a home wrecker.
I had a similar issue arise with a seller on ebay. But we were able to handle it differently as we have an attorney that handles are legal issues.
In that case we had our attorney send the company a cease and desist letter. In the letter it outlined further legal action if they did not remove our items. We as well outline that for the items they did sell they had to pay us a 25% percentage of the sales of that item.
But you do as well need to set your licenses for non commercial not for profit which protect your file rights. Cause if not anyone can download the file and sell it legally. Make your you have the crossed out $ sign to keep people from reselling the item.
It sucks that companies will do anything and everything to sell other peoples designs and products. Why can'y they just be creative and original.
I dont understand the greed of people, if I printed stuff out from someone elses models and was making money I would be tipping them accordingly, filament for those lightswitchs (tardis) is like what? 25 to 50 cents? electricity where I live to do that (3 hours x 300watts=900Wh or .9kWh) is less than 9 cents, print selling for 10 bucks? over 9 dollars profit, heck even if you kicked 25 cents a print to the model maker that would quickly ad up to another printer or tons of filament for them to print with, and the seller is still making around 9 dollars off a printer just sitting there doing their work for them.
I am obviously late to this party, but the most ironic part of this is that this is easily one of the most simplistic designs in Ms. Digger's portfolio.. This poacher aimed pretty low.
Get over yourselves, simple people, protesting simple problems.
Um, you are kind of late to the party, this happened months ago, please go away.
I second MustangDave lol (wheres My like button at) ;)
Check out this one. Very rude guy.. dosent respect non commercial policy.. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:762168/#comments
Life is too short to go arguing with people stealing someone elses model, relax mate, you'll live longer.
Everyone go to http://www.mailbait.info/run.html and type in Just3DPrintit's email (info@just3Dprint.com) and it will fill their email a bunch xD
They won't even be able to scroll to the bottom. It spams those fake forms you see online with their email :P
Is there other way if ebay do nothing about my complain?
Is there a takedown notice process for ebay.pl? I don't speak Polish so it's hard to tell from the site.
Did you follow this and did eBay.pl respond saying they would not remove the auctions? If so, what reasons did they give? If it's a case of "no response" then I suggest you phone them up to find out what the status is. Ebay has huge backlogs.
I really don't advise asking other users to leave takedown messages in the "Ask a question" section of these auctions. I doubt it will achieve much and it's possible those users could get into trouble with eBay for harassing behaviour.
Yes. I've already wrote to email@example.com firstname.lastname@example.org and filled out NOCI form. There is no response yet. I will wait week or two and call them.
Anatol from All3DP.com here. We spoke with with Michael Weinberg about this incident. There are some really interesting things about IP, Creative Commons and Thingiverse we'd like to share.https://all3dp.com/interview-michael-weinberg/
+1 on functional designs.
I've always said CC shouldn't cover a design stronger than patent. Patents don't require proof of inventive step, but there is at least sections to declare "prior art", a single regional authority and a cursory background check.
CC could have multiple " claims " on the same concept by different but genuine inventors.
That's is very interesting - thanks for sharing:-)
Wesley Crusher's comments on free sourcing . may be it's different. I don't mind giving away some of my work, but it's hard to see how I'd feed my family giving everything away.
I realize that an anecdote is not the same as general proof, but ten years ago, a friend of mine took books he had written, and created audiobooks for them, which he put online for free (you can google podiobooks if you're interested).
Once he started selling the books, the fan base he had built off of giving away a different version was large enough to support him financially, while just selling e-books on Amazon. Last year (after 4 years of sales), he quit his job as a tenured professor to pursue writing full time.
So, YMMV, but there is a business model to "free".
It's an encouraging story, nonetheless. Thank you for posting it.
Thank you for everything loubie!
What a result, let's hope he doesn't re surface. :)
Hey I don't know how to properly file the Vero complaint. Partly because it's Etsy and since I am not the designer, can someone from the Thingiverse community file the Vero on the Designer's behalf? Or the designer has to file the claim?
This is the mad max shift knob found on Etsy:
I was going to post on the designer's page, but I think this thread is on FIRE !
Best song for Just3DPrint AKA JustSteal3D:dunch dunch dunch Another one bites the dust!
Loubie you need to see this http://www.ebay.com/sch/just3dprinted/m.html?item=322017350298&hash=item4af9bad29a%3Ag%3Ab24AAOSwPc9WzRgm&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
I am assuming it's the same person trying to get back at you.
If it's actually you then let me know and I will delete this.
See Loubie's reply to an earlier comment about Just3dprinted...
loubie - in reply to gaprice
Just3Dprinted eBay user and the associated listings are just a Thingiverse friend having a joke, but thanks for the heads up anyway:-). In fact, the license is such that anyone can sell prints of Sad Face, they just have to attribute me.
Just3DPrint (not Just3DPrinted) are the naughty people.
Just a hypothetical situation; If I sell prints of Sad Face and do not attribute Loubie is that also a violation of the Vero?
I see lots of stuff listed for commercial purposes on Ebay / Etsy but they do not give the simple attributions.
I would say yes in that the license agreement requires it. If you don't give attribution, you are violating the copyright.
But then again, there is a question if the item can be copyrighted in the first place. This is a matter for the lawyers and not one I want to delve into.
It would break the conditions of the license and hence be a violation of copyright. Vero is just the eBay IP protection program.
If you see an item that violates copyright (or you think it does) then contact the designer to let them know. It is much appreciated.
Just making it clear, I am not responsible for just3dprint being removed, it was ALL of us! Stand tall, stand proud. This was a victory for ALL! His legal mumbo Jumbo didn't do any good now did it! Lol.
For anyone on ebay who wishes to report the intellectual property infringement please see this letter I was sent by ebay. This is what helped shut down Just"Steal"3D. I'm very pleased that this was taken care of. My apologies I haven't been more involved my father has been in the hospital for 5 days now and had to have emergency quadruple bypass. All is well now!
Here is the letter.
Thank you for contacting eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program.
We appreciate the information you have provided to us. We need some additional documentation from you before we are able to assist you further. As you may know, eBay does not buy or sell any items; we act only as a venue that enables others to do so. As such, we neither see nor inspect any items that are offered for sale. The VeRO Program provides Intellectual Property Rights Owners with a way to request the removal of allegedly infringing content on our site. This in turn helps us to create a safer eBay community.
In order to properly report a listing that you believe is infringing, you must submit a Notice of Claimed Infringement (NOCI). Please note that ended listings can be reported as well. Our NOCI form is located at:
Please click on the word "here" at the end of the first paragraph. This will allow you to fill out and sign an NOCI electronically using DocuSign after you authenticate your email address. Please also include any documents or additional information that can support your claim (for example, a trademark registration number).
If you have any questions, you can reach us by phone at 1-866-322-9106, Monday - Friday from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. MST.
Thank you for your interest in the eBay VeRO Program.
eBay VeRO Team
Another bulk-ish ebay offender
ebay seems to have a problem, search results says 1230 but it only shows a couple of pages (of 192) of items...
Random sample shows CC-A type licenses and no attribution, at least 2 NC Things.
Lots of cookie cutters if that is your design thing...
Hello Thingiverse community,
I've kept my eyes on this situation for a week or so since at lease 3 of my designs were infringed upon by just3dprint which the listings have removed now.
Although I didn't get to sit down and digest all of what people have posted, it was interesting to see the range of discussions brew from copyright and CC license to people(copyright infringers) react and taclke to what community agrees upon at the first place to "freely" upload their designs.
I have been on Thingiverse for about 4 years now and I am one of the people who are glad to have people's designs removed from eBay but acts like this isn't the first to happen and it won't stop either, considering similar violations of CC have happened even by Makerbot before, look up Dizingof and why he moved to sell his designs on Ponoko rather than offering them for free.
I'm aware of these situations, and aware of why it took certain parties longer to respond.
I think the last IP infringement cleared out a lot of contributors from Thingiverse, so many people on this thread may not have had this happen before, or even be aware of that.
My standpoint is made clear in many of the designs I post. I just really, really didn't like these guys attitude, scale or pricing.
They had this coming and to be boasting about services to R&D and then to ride roughshod over the CC. It was just frikking stupid.
They wanted to annoy people, and guess what? They poked the hornet's nest.
I still don't see what they expect to have gained with their stupidly high prices.
They can't have sold many poorly printed jamjars at $30 USD.
The jam jars were $200U.S :p
Those must have come with lids and maybe a few grams of peanut butter then....
Example of someone doing it the right way
Yay, congratulations everybody! Time for a happy face http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1379538
I set up searches on eBay which catch my stolen designs and will send me an e-mail alert if something similar is posted. If they set up shop again under a different name but with the same products it will make a figurative red light flash in my proverbial bat cave.
It is very easy to do if you have an eBay account. Search on your product's name and click follow search. I would encourage anyone affected by this to do the same. The more ears we have to the ground the better, and the sooner we can initiate a take-down if they return. They listed one of my designs for 6 months! Next time it won't last 6 days.
WTG Everyone involved and especially to Louise for starting the snowball rolling downhill, that ended up as an avalanche on JPI!!!
Still looking forward to seeing Makerbot's official position statement being published!
Cheater are bad for the community...
Just to put some more positive light on the situation.. sometimes you have an easy win. I asked an Ebayer to take my print down at about 7pm AEST, by midnight the sale was down and he apologized. Thanks MustangDave for pointing that one out.
Re-posting my earlier message, there are still others out there, just not as industrial as JPI.
Here is an advanced search on '3D printed' with much of the extraneous stuff filtered (3D t-shirts etc).
The query I had been using during the JPI issue was specifically watching the "Crafts/Other Crafts" category and searching for "3D Printed -filament". Doing that search now brings back less than 500. That's a huge reduction from the removal of one seller.
We have won the battle but this war will never end, but now we've been brought together and are better prepared for what comes next.
Thank you for your hard work finding these. I see a lot of questionable stuff, for example the "Apple Watch Stand" shaped like an old Macintosh, but as I looked at the original license, it's Attribution only, so it's a minor offense. I feel we have won the war for now, but as more people get 3d printers, it's going to be an uphill battle.
Well -it would seem most of the Just3Dprint eBay items have gone...
Is it possible they closed that storefront and opened another somewhere else?
I somehow doubt it, but anything is possible. However, if it was eBay who have suspended their account then they are pretty good at catching people who try to relist under another account. The eBay documentation is pretty clear on that point.
Great success! Thanks Loubie.
Hooray!! No items on their page!! people power wins! hahha Ebay must have just had enough with the reports and went, BAH! enough! more more emails!!!
Yayyyyy, community 1, Just3DPrint 0 :D
AWESOME. Mine is down and I can't find him on ebay!
Wooo Hooo! Hooray for our team!
Now we can turn that frown upside down! For now anyways...
Yee Haa! I see 0 items for sale, but if I click around I see maybe 10, maybe due to internet cache. If you click on the items you do see it goes to nothing. Success! Time to party!
Yup looks pretty empty now. Whether it was eBay or Just3Dprint themselves, I've no idea.
Hard to say, but since all of their stuff is gone, even the used hard drives and other junk my money is on eBay.
...or someone bought the used hard drives.
Or Windows 98 Boot disks....
just3dprinted is posting your sad face on ebay and referencing youhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printed-Sad-Face-Buy-It-Now-Version-/322017350298?hash=item4af9bad29a:g:b24AAOSwPc9WzRgm
Just3Dprinted eBay user and the associated listings are just a Thingiverse friend having a joke, but thanks for the heads up anyway:-). In fact, the license is such that anyone can sell prints of Sad Face, they just have to attribute me.
Thank you for letting us all know about this. :(
People may want to check their photobucket listing too.
I'm new to photobucket, but it appears you can order a print (this may be a photo print?) or photo on calendars etc.
IMO a photo of your copyright work is protected. I don't think this is the start of their response/alternative to using 'our' copyright photos from Thingiverse, as the photo dates seem to be from late 2015.
Looks like they use the parents spare room, I assume the other room is the college's 3D Lab.
My Aliens 35th anniversay bust, the chestburster, the facehugger...
Don't forget the alien egg I have uploaded...sad face... I doubt anyone would buy photo prints of those.
Well, at for once they look like things they printed themselves! I've looked through the makes and can't see any that match those pictures... was hoping to find their other account on here!
That guy is also selling my design without proper attribution. Ebay Item number 252217887234.
I filled out the NOCI form and emailed it to the ebay vero address. Is there anything else that I should do?
No - that's it. Just a matter of waiting for eBay now.
Best wishes with your legal battles, needless to say, I'm with you for sure.
You have a fantastic talent for creativity and that is worth fighting for.
I hope those thieving Bast**** rot in hell.
All the best
This isn't the first time and it won't be the last time copyrights have been violated by thieves. Thieves have been creating and selling forgeries for as long as art has been around. I'm pretty sure the second caveman to draw a picture of a buffalo on a wall was copying of the first guy's art. Lucky for him copyright wasn't around yet but he probably got a fist to the nose instead.
Now that we are in the digital age the copies can be identical to the originals. Copyright law is still enforceable in the digital age and a big reason for that is the DMCA as wepollock9 points out. Even with the DMCA, people need to go to court to enforce it at times. It's not magic. However I agree with w9 that this case will probably not wind up in court because JPI won't have an ebay store for much longer.
Creative commons is in place to grant a license for use of the copyrighted work so it is actually there to protect the licensee rather than the licensor. The licensor is already protected by copyright and uses CC as a convenient method to grant licenses for use of that work to others. CC is not the protection and does not need to be 'enforced' by the creators of the art granting the licenses. Bringing up that 'creative commons has no precedent' doesn't make a damn bit of difference in a court. No creative commons. No license. Copyright is violated. With creative commons. Licensing rules are put in place. The licensee proves they were following the rules of the license and they're fine, if not copyright is violated. Copyright is the law, creative commons is the license. Creative commons licenses are there to benefit yahoos like me that couldn't design a dragon or articulated frog if their lives depended on it. Again, copyright protects loubie, creative commons protects the yahoo.
What loubie and Sad Face have done is brought to light a problem that has existed in our community for quite a while but people tended to ignore. The DeviantArt community has had these problems for years and has a community with creators that look out for violations of others' works both inside and outside DA. I don't know that any of the copyright infringement cases their community faced ever wound up in court but I do know that they've taken down violators both smaller and larger than JPI. We are where the DeviantArt community was nine years ago. Now it's our time to come together, not just for a week or two, but continuing on past this incident.
Sad Face has brought us together and is a great symbol of our unity. Sad Face is a symbol of our bond as a community of creators that believe in copyright law and in artists' rights. Sad Face is a symbol of our commitment as individuals and as a community to not sit silent and allow thieves to continue to steal and profit by violating the rights of artists. Once this current situation is over, profile pics will go back to normal, this thread will remain silent, the blogs will move on to other stories, Even without Sad Face being prominently displayed it is up to us to keep Sad Face in our hearts and continue to look out for each other.
Thank you for writing this. The Deviantart stuff is very interesting.
If you want a view by a renowned futurist, science fiction author and, I suppose, 'activist' in IP, on the future direction of 3D Printing and the whole Maker movement, I can recommend one.
The novel Makers.
Selected elements from Craphound, About Makers
"Perry and Lester invent things...They also invent entirely new economic systems...Barefoot bankers cross the nation, microinvesting in high-tech communal mini-startups like Perry and Lester’s. Together, they transform the country, and Andrea Fleeks, a journo-turned-blogger, is there to document it.
Then it slides into collapse... a rogue Disney executive grows jealous, and convinces the police that Perry and Lester’s 3D printers are being used to run off AK-47s.
Lawsuits multiply as venture capitalists take on a new investment strategy: backing litigation against companies like Disney. Lester and Perry’s friendship falls to pieces when Lester gets the ‘fatkins’ treatment, turning him into a sybaritic gigolo.
Then things get really interesting."
© Cory Doctorow
The novels "license agreement (see below), is from Creative Commons" (though I can't seem to find the see below # bit) and it is freely downloadable; he expresses his views on copyright on the download page.
I commend it to you. (noting it is now getting on six years old)
Edit: # it is in the download - Creative Commons US Attribution Non Commercial Share Alike
Numbers are going down.
I don't remember the exact number of items they were offering but I know it was over 2,100 and I think it may have been like 2,145 or somewhere near that.
Well they are at 2,004 right now. I don't know if these are all take downs or if they just expired but it's a move in the right direction anyway. My 2 are still there though.
So, I've been watching this unfold. Unfortunately, I found one of my designs listed on Ebay by @JPI
This is quite unfortunate to say the least. A company, not just an individual, took the time to download a catalog of models, strip the images and list them to create a profit via Ebay. Not the best start for a 'start-up' which is a bit ironic. It's no different than taking someones photo from their Instagram feed and using it to advertise your product or service without permission. Even if the Ebay listings were for $0.01, it's a form of advertising and it's also a sales ad. A form of marketing to receive monetary gain either by search engine or within Ebay's search results.
There is no stopping anyone to provide a printing service to print anything anyone wants. Plenty of people offer services. No one is against service providers. There are however, things such as integrity and ethics that come into play when doing business. So, the part that is wrong is the advertising of designs not by them and the ad to specifically 3D print in the individual Ebay listings. Sure, in a sea full of Ebay listings, who would notice? That's the kind of maturity and level of integrity we are dealing with. Is that the type of business that anyone would want to deal with? This is not the type of press 3D printing needs when there are many individuals as well as mom and pop small businesses doing business with a sense of pride, who are actively contributing to their community and above all, have integrity.
I have many friends who fear sharing their work with fear of someone stealing from them for these very reasons. As an artist, I myself have had that fear but I don't let it stop me from doing the things that I love. As a teacher, I enjoy sharing and helping others which is why I like to contribute to a place such as Thingiverse. As a person, I believe that most people will do the right thing and hope this all gets resolved quickly. I've had people steal my work before in other mediums but this has to be one of the most unfortunate.
While I can't speak for others work, I can specifically speak about my own model. The Elf ornament is a derivative work of another model of mine, the Gramps which was a model from my Thesis work from my MFA at the Academy of Art University. I have concept sketches and final art for them from many years ago. So, this isn't simply a CAD model. This is a model that I have put in many hours to create from conception to the final sculpt and even more hours creating the derivative. It is my choice as the artist, designer, maker and creator that I don't apply a monetary value to this model and that I share it with everyone under its current license so that everyone may enjoy them as much as I have. There is also sentimental value for me within this model.
So @JPI, by all means, provide printing services but you are doing so in the wrong way. You have failed to comply with simple Creative Commons licensing agreements with most just wanting attribution and you have failed to take notice of any licenses that are non-Commercial but share alike. It's clear that you have a blatant disregard for such agreements as well and what they serve to protect. A business is as good as its reputation, do you not care about yours?
Take the listings down, apologize (or don't) and move forward with better business practices.
CAD, Copyright and Creative Commons – Part 1, the infringement saga continues written by Oliver Smith, a consultant with Stratasys Strategic Consulting.
Definitely worth reading and looking forward to part two.
By Oliver Smith Stratasys Designer and mil-idiot- February 26, 2016 "Once again, there is blood in the water, and it is only a matter of time before the Lawyers begin circling, armed with rows upon rows of razor-sharp Intellectual Property Law Precedent." ....He then goes on to outline the "Creative Commons Framework. "
Here is the point > There is no Precedent as it relates to Creative Commons, NONE. There is no "body of law" that can be used to help answer future legal questions regarding the validity and ability to enforce the Creative Commons Construct. NONE
Here i point 2 > Nobody is going to go to a court here to test anything; The remedy is DCMA. The issue will be solved.
Point 3 > Very little damage has been done. The three Wharton Students (mil-idiots) are not making any money printing stolen designs. A theft has occurred.
Shut up and hear the music.
And you got your law degree from where? To be able to speak with such certainty as to people's legal rights and options, you must be a lawyer.
Armchair lawyer from the university of Google with a minor in logic taught by Glenn Beck and Spongebob.
Now if it was from Google, surely he would have a better understanding of the differences between a license and a copyright. Are you sure he didn't get it from Wharton? And I have heard better logic come from Sponge Bob than this. ;)
Education can only take one so far. There must be some inherent intelligence within to comprehend and then render opinions which fit within the logical constructs of reality.
You keep repeating your "point one" over and over and over again. I have to ask why, in the case of a person whos copyright has been violated, is it at all relevant?
Regardless of what license I release a copyrighted work under, if the copyright is violated, I would be pursuing that entity for violating my copyright.
I can see a potential where the violator could attempt to use a CC license to defend against infringement, but not the other way around.
DCMA is your solution path. (and hopefully in the background there was a letter from Thingivere to Ebay on this issue) DEFINITIVELY mean complete, accurate, and considered to be the best course of action.
Other remedies and ideas (copyright law, and creative commons) fall into the category of magical thinking. To illustrate how pervasive magical thinking is see the ZDNet article.
To millennials; If you don't want your work copied, don't put it online.. That is the most definitive form of IP protection you can have.
Now that DCMA seems to have worked; (in any follow on complainants) you might consider reminding Ebay that the user is systemically abusing the Ebay TOS they agreed to as a seller, and request that they be banned. A word of warning regarding the ZDNET article and "Commercial Likenesses."
The idea that you can "Fairly Use" a design owned by a major corporation is risky-nonsense. You are putting yourself at financial & legal risk. If you get "slapp-suited" for posting copyrighted work here you remotely/might/could/will lose a large portion/most/all your assets just to defend yourself; long before/even-if your lawyer tries to use fair use as a defense. THERE IS NO FAIR USE - PER zdnet. (ZDNet is also wrong because there is next no risk in downloading a copyrighted design (to sit on your desk) per his example - I don't know if a Dalek is a "Government work" coming from the BBC however.) A star-wars blaster is private work.
Thingiverse on the other hand has no risk as long as they have a DCMA take-down processes.
From the ZDNet article; "Thingiverse has other challenges. Any quick look will notice tons of Star Wars, Dr. Who, and other designs. These are obviously not public domain or even Commons-based designs, but fans love them. These are commercial likenesses protected vigorously by their copyright holders. There is some level of Fair Use involved, and it's entirely unlikely the BBC will be harmed in any way if I have a Dalek on my desk, but it is an issue." Did a Millennial (most of whom are fact, educationally, or reasoning impaired) write that article w/o researching anything? My guess is yes.
For those that haven't seen yet, myminifactory has come up with their solution: http://blog.myminifactory.com/post/140036735034/myminifactory-introduces-labelling-as-a-service
I love MyMiniFactory, but they seem over ambitious and under-staff/funded. It takes a long time to get something into their collection and they don't always tell you when they've done it. Still I think a curated collection is a great idea even if it isn't run as smoothly as we would like.
Burning a label into the model is a fine idea as well, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking it would stop willful infringers from selling prints. Plus for someone skilled in modelling it would be trivial to remove the label. I doubt the Philly boys could, but I doubt they'd care.
sadly myminifactory absolutely are horrible to deal with, moreso than makerbot. You think communication is slowish here? lol... Was talking to one of their mods "Zachary" and mid email trail, he just stops, never gets back to me :/..
If anyone wants custom watermarks put in their models, I'll do it for them for free and it takes me about 10 seconds - and you wont need to wait 10+ working days for it to be approved by myminifactory.
I uploaded a model to MMF and it took like a month to get approved. When it does get finally approved, they print out the object for you to make sure it's printable, it looked horrible. Sorry, just speaking the truth.
I haven't uploaded anything to MMF so didn't know those issues. The idea of watermarking the objects seemed like a neat idea even though it probably wouldn't stop a group like JPI.
watermark idea is cool
I keep the JPI eBay listings that I posted here in a spreadsheet.
Now that they appear to have stopped loading new items, I've posted it here in case anyone want to extract details easily.
Just looked at the file and only see about 120 items on it......is that correct?
Yes, I started on Feb-22. I did not go back in time.
OK, so just the stuff added since then....I misunderstood. :)
Noting that from the sheet only 3 items from Feb-23 & two from Feb-22 remain on eBay.
I see your face is on ZDNet! Did they ask permission? :)
"3D printing pirates: When eBay thieves profit from your work http://zd.net/24t4XCI via @ZDNet @DavidGewirtz @thingiverse "
Yes - permission was sought and granted:-)
As I had a few troubling weeks currently, I didn't have much time to check back here. But I'm glad that things are happening. eBay taking down the copyrighted items, people discussing, supporting and learning about legal things, and last but not least a big statement from Thingiverse. This community is totally amazing and I'm proud to be a part of this. I have to admit that I'm happy that these guys were so blatantly ignorant and that I got noticed through Loubies post about my designs being stolen, because I learned so much and saw so many good things. Thanks again Loubie for raising awareness.
In light of this, I'm going to be sure to go set all my models so that people CAN sell them. I want people to be able to do whatever the hell they want with them.
Agreed. Most users here aren't considering running their own competing service. Running a 3d printing farm seems like a lot of work for a small profit margin and a lot of fuss and low production volume. I feel that many casual users here are overly protective of their works, mostly the fault of the copyright culture we live in. I hope more people think deeply about why they choose the licenses they choose, and perhaps are moved to use CC-0 (public domain) licenses or other permissive licenses on this website and other forums to share work.
Old conversation, but -- there's good reasons to want your license respected, even when your objects are all free to use: Keeping them free to use, for one. You could wake up to find a takedown request in your inbox once someone else has a more obvious, and unattributed, history using your design than you do.
That's fraud, but difficult to prevent if you don't defend whatever license you've picked. It's happened before in the software world. The sad fact is, copyright is use-it-or-lose-it, and if you knowingly don't defend it, that's considered de-facto consent at least.
Still a relevant conversation though! I don't mind keeping it going.
I agree that licenses should be respected. When I say "casual users are overly protective of their works" I meant through picking restrictive licenses. ND licenses are a worst case of this...people wanting to control the work so thoroughly that they would stipulate that others can't even modify it...
So I'm completely in agreement that it is important that we defend misuse especially in formal, legal ways so that we can have lots of strong precedent that backs up that Creative Commons are real, useful, and enforceable.
More power to you!
I've just politely, but firmly requested via email that a couple of sellers 'cease and desist' selling my 3d printable finger wrench via ebay.
I also emailed ebay directly to report. Seems to have done the trick, both sellers are no longer listing the item. But I can see this issue only getting worst before it gets better.
I was almost tempted to request that the seller donate any profit from the sale of my item to charity, but maybe thats asking too much...
Just got this message:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 25 February 2016 at 19:45
Subject: VeRO Program -- eBay Listing Removed
Thank you for contacting us.
We are pleased to inform you that the following listing(s) you reported have been removed from eBay in response to the Notice of Claimed Infringement you recently sent:
We have notified the seller and all participating bidders that the listing(s) has been removed due to your request.
If the Notice of Claimed Infringement contained items that are not listed above you will receive a separate email communication about those items. These notices may arrive at different times (over a period of up to several hours) as items for different sellers are processed separately.
If you should have any questions or concerns regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
eBay Trust & Safety
My requests have gone unanswered as of now. I have also added wording to all of my listing photos to indicate they are under a personal copywrite and use on Ebay is prohibited. I am hoping that in future thefts, these photos will help prevent their use as well.
There is about a week of backlog - plus we've obviously hit the weekend which will cause further delay. Hopefully, something will get sorted out for you next week..
Well, I have to say Congrat, but for others who do need help if some thief or copycat may strike again in the future.
.... and , per chance, does eBay check the seller's account for previous items they have sold to see if any where the same as this sculpture?
If so, I think Just3DPrint should be paying compensation to yourself and designers in a similar position.
The bottom line here is its safer to ask permission to print something than just assume its ok.
I've been doing a lot of thinking myself in this area, reflecting on my own activities.
What you see is what I got sent. I'm hoping other people are getting notifications of successful takedowns today.
Glad to here the system works! Hopefully we'll see some other success storys over the next few days.
Awesome! I am glad to see it works. About how many days did it take from when you submitted your form?
I sent a DMCA on the 17th Feb, which matches up with the backlog we've been told to expect.
Thanks loubie, if that's anything to go by they should get to mine soon, I think I put it in on the 21st.
Yay, the Internet system does work!
Not only is he stealing images, he is stealing images with peoples faces and bodies which they have been turned into inadvertent advertising for him. http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printed-Doctor-Who-Rose-Tyler-Blaster-/261967751972?hash=item3cfe7eab24:g:ZvUAAOSwjVVVpXVn
Yes, any with people I've Google image (reverse) search and then posted a link on their profile. For me, the limit was reposting images (clear, legal precedence).
They are just too bad for words.
I actually follow that person on G+ (hasn't posted there recently), but she has posted in this thread... ping @AprilStorm
The whole thing saddens me deeply, I joined this community about three years ago when I purchased my 3D printer and have gained a great deal of enjoyment printing designs from Thingiverse. I uploaded a small collection of designs to give something back, a thank you if you like to those who uploaded there designs so others could print them freely.
It truly sickens me to see people abusing this site to make a profit when its clearly against the wishes of the artist who modeled the design in the first place.
I can only hope that people will understand the true spirit of what the artists intended and ask permission to distribute there work and give acknowledgement where it is due !!.
@tilden - its worth noting that @JPI claim to offer design services, but seem to have uploaded none of their designs to Thingiverse.
They don't have any designs, because they don't know how to 3d model.
Well.......they didn't want anyone stealing their stuff. ;)
Nothing new added, eBay Item count still 2008 so nothing removed either.
Note that I have no intention of compiling the older listing here. I presume the removal of the Feb-24 (most of 23) listed items may have been due to someone using my compiled list to send to whomever. So if your design is still in the 2008 you may want to take the action others have indicated below. Or wait to see if wider action is taken by anyone.
I wonder if Wharton Public Relations / IP have put them on a "Self Help" course?
(how could they have possibly found out about this?)
Anyone interested in the IP issues here (which should be all of us) should check out this excellent article by Michael Weinburg
It is easy to understand and everything is backed up with case references. Michael may be reluctant to toot his own horn, so I'll toot it for him. If this whitepaper were required reading at Wharton we probably wouldn't be here having this discussion.
The article talks about the DCMA process as a remedy;
It also mentions that; "Not surprisingly, widespread access to 3D printing is likely to raise some novel legal issues. “Novel legal issues” is another way of saying “questions without concrete answers.” It goes on to say that many of these legal issues need to be tested in court. As mentioned the idea of CC has not (nor will it likely) be tested anywhere.
There are some misstatements in his document related to patent law; he provides a footnote to clarify his simplification to fact.
In this particular case copyright law is all you need - they've not just taken the designs, but are using photographs owned by thingiverse members or thingiverse (the blue on grey backgrounds).
@wepollock9THE "IP" Court Supports Enforceability of CC Licenses
The link to the Appeals Court Ruling in the above is broken, it can be found here. It concludes "the terms of the Artistic License [ie CC] are enforceable copyright conditions"
Good find (to find a case); a single case does not make a "body of law." The decision it sends it back to the lower courts for consideration on its merits. It will take years to work these kinds of issues out as to develop a body of law which has been generally accepted.
You really don't seem to understand the difference between a license and copyright.
I would just like to know how you came to that erroneous conclusion.
Easy. You continue to prove it.
http://www.cnet.com/news/creative-commons-license-upheld-by-court/ - occured in 2006
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_license#Dutch_tabloid has more instances of cc infringement cases and results, etc.
apparently you missed or chose to ignore it. Enjoy!
I listed The few cases there are, those cases are totally insignificant especially in the US. You were provided with a link to remedy the situation.
How do you know people aren't filing VERO claims? You seem pretty convinced that nobody is listening to your claims that VERO is the only solution. How might you know that nobody is listening to your advice?
@wepollock Funny I don't see those listing/links anywhere only this little blurb from you
"I am having my own issues, with my work copied from thing.iverse w/o attribution. After saying that I know of only 1 instance of Creative Commons license being enforced successfully (and that was in Europe not the us). In other words post your work online here and kiss your rights goodby, until such time as this website does something about it. Suggest you dcma eBay until then. Yes it is theft"
which previously you were wanting cases/links, but when provided you just ignore now. I'm also assuming your "few cases" and the one in particular is the ref to the dutch case vs adam curry, but the wiki link shows settlements in the us as well (Illinois) as well as other parts of the world, so i'm again assuming you've only read the link name and didn't go beyond to read any of the articles because that wouldn't fit your narrow worldview.
Not to mention this judgement/settlement specifically regarding thingiverse that @ukcat posted to one of your comments has alluded your perusal... https://www.3dprintler.com/blog/3d-printing-news-canadian-stl-ip-infringement-lawsuit-gets-settled-court/ which you seemed to go silent on that thread once the link was provided.
i'm beginning to think that you ARE that youtube nut case wepollock claiming doom and gloom, and the end of times on the greg hunter channel. I really hope that's not the case, but your lack either understanding or ignorance on whats been provided to you (now that others have done the work for you) and your continuance of the diatribe that is your line of thinking certainly points to you being the same individual, which is fine, i like to know when i'm dealing with crazy.
The only actual thing I've seen listed from you, that is somewhat helpful, which is the regulation of the ebay link http://pages.ebay.com/vero/notice.html, however you think is the end all be all to this situation.
Which clearly this isn't the only avenue.
The only actual thing I've seen listed from you, that is somewhat helpful, which is the [res] the ebay link http://pages.ebay.com/vero/notice.html, however you think is the end all be all to this situation.
YES IT IS AN END ALL TO THIS SITUATION..
That is it that is all.. Some folks cannot be helped..
You don't need help since you only have two published designs; none of which will be copied by the ebay bandit.
Interesting that you are so sure that nobody is listening to you. How do you know people aren't filing VERO claims with ebay?
Did you file a DCMA claim?
Was your work infringed upon?
People work infringed? <-A large number 2000?
Who here filed a DCMA claim? Who had word posted on Ebay?
Who had stolen-work sold on Ebay? <-that is a very very small number based on the feedback that ebay user had.. Very Small
If you read the comments from earlier (Saturday I think) several people have filed. Ebay has a 7 day backlog on VERO claims so it will probably be the end of the week before they start processing this particular issue/seller's claims.
BTW, all the seller has to do is claim that they aren't violating anyone's copyright and they can re-list the items. So reporting to Ebay is NOT the "END ALL TO THIS SITUATION"...
I also suggest (and did suggest previously) you ask Thingiverse to send a letter to Ebay asking them to address this issue in the overview; I also acknowledged the time it will take Ebay to react (in the number of days). What is a reasonable time for them to act under DCMA; that is defined in the law as “expeditiously” (my guess is 30-60 or even days would be reasonable).Reporting to Ebay is the end all to the situation and they will be amenable in handling it.
Most likely, You have not been materially damaged (since the ebay seller hardly sells anything at all) and even if they did it would not be an amount great enough to justify anything else than a DCMA take-down request. So basically;
THAT IS IT THAT IS ALL.. Enough Said.
What is expeditiously in a DCMA request http://www.cardozoaelj.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Weinstein.pdf The point here is nobody knows.
You might want to read: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/504
Statutory damages for willful infringement is $150,000. Might be worth someone's time.
FWIW, Makerbot/Thingiverse did say they were preparing action with their legal team so again, how do you know they haven't?
They only action Thingiverse is going to do is send a demand letter. Ebay will behave amicably and ethically towards thiningiverse. All Ebay has to do is follow the process to be protected from any liability. They don't even need to agree to take the work down!
However, You would have to prove to a court that you were infringed upon and that is NOT going to happen. You were not damaged enough to justify the burden of litigation; and the fools posting stuff on Ebay have ZERO financial depth and ZERO financial risk. They have done near Zero actual damage to anyone.
However, the statute you stated could easily apply to you for posting a copyrighted work here eg Minion Chess Set on Thinigiverse should a large copyright-holder (such as Disney) decide you have ruffled them the wrong way. Best to create your own designs rather than copy some idea born from a corporation. You can lose everything (see all the people paying up for copying and distributing song tracks). You would lose everything just by getting "slapp suited" which was a whole industry at one time.
The DCMA process is not really for you.. Statutory damage for copyright was not designed for your benefit either. Going to court, that is not for you either. These regulations were designed for companies such as Disney (the statutory damages you sited), Ebay, Google, and Thingiverse (all three DCMA Safe Harbor). In this case however DCMA helpful to you as a side effect.
THAT IS IT THAT IS ALL
Again, you're clearly out of your depths here.
Burden of litigation has zero impact on whether your rights were infringed. Do you understand what statutory damages are?
Yep, its a fantasy on your part. Magical thinking.
@6nom3 about @wepollock forget trying to make sense to him, his world view is of his own making, when we post he's just sticking his fingers in his ears and screaming loudly at his screen only then to copy/paste the same gibberish over and over and declaring himself king and his decree of http://pages.ebay.com/vero/notice.html is gospel. He is nothing more than a troll. I'd suggest on any future post of his declaration of cc toilet paper and gloom and doom we just continue to post facts and not directly engage the troll. Soon the sunlight will be upon him and he'll be of stone... ;)
http://pages.ebay.com/vero/notice.html is gospel.
And there we go; ton of people are getting a positive response from the Ebay DCMA take-down process.
What's yer point? None of us who differ in our thought process vs yours indicated that you should have never gone the route of the official dispute process of getting items taken off of ebay. Many of us also indicated that you should do so, we just didn't regurgitate the link in every response to a disagreement of your viewpoint and claimed it as the end all be all to these issues. Many of us advocated to seek the other avenues of recourse that are afforded to you under cc licensing and copyright law. Again you seem to think that once an item is taken down there is no infringement, the infringement occurred as soon as they put the item up, period, end of fact. Now what those owners do after the infringement is an entirely another matter. If the infringers take the item down willingly, and say "sorry I didn't realise...", then maybe you accept the apology as genuine, and move on case closed, but if you act like these asshats then you might want to see compensation and make it so they won't infringe again. I don't expect you to agree, understand, etc., because you don't have the capacity to do so. Frankly, I'm done with you. cheers!
@dclunie ~ I thought we weren't feeding the trolls? ;)
@dclunie = mil-idiot = Millennial Idiot
No "thought process" on your part.
@dclunie ~ Yep. I'm with ya. Not really worth the time responding anymore.
Three comments have been deleted in the last 12 hours.
I wonder who they were from and what they said?
No comments have been deleted from this thread by Thingiverse staff. The only exception would be if a spammer's entire account was deleted and took affiliated spam comments with it.
There are lots of reasons things get deleted. I once accidentally posted the same comment 4 times, do mostly to impatience and poor wifi. I deleted the dupes so as not to clutter up the thread, but the comment deleted notices stay. I wouldn't read too much into it.
+1, assuming they were Thingiverse Moderators, they could note the poster and some comment as to the 'issue' that lead to deletion. Particularly if they were from JPI.
Sadly Moderators have a fine line to walk between letting fools have enough rope to hang themselves and maintaining group moral and peace. I think @JPI have hung themselves many times already though.
I just done a little test.
When you aren't signed into thingiverse and read the comments upon designs.
There is the option(click-able link) to "flag" a post which then gives the clicker a form to Report as Inappropriate as a violation of the Thingiverse Terms of Service, that then goes to a team who most likely decide to remove it.
When you are signed in you are able to reply to comments and flag
So the point that I'm making is that readers of comment thread, with no TV account could have flagged the ones which were removed.
It would interesting to see/know why they were removed, rather than just show it's removed, might educate people not to post inappropriate comments.
Of course, you can Delete your own post too. Considering some of the "armchair lawyers" in this thread, not hard to believe one of them figured out they were wrong and embarrassed on some such point.
yah i agree, and sadly some of these people with views so askew are still hanging around making a nuisance of themselves. (not you, "others")
Aye - I think most of it was self-censorship - possibly down to realized mistaken thinking or maybe in some cases because they were being ignored?. Don't feed the trolls and they will go elsewhere for "food":-)
I'll just leave these here for those individuals who like to argue about CC licenses being "toilet paper". This was just found with a cursory "google is your friend search"! No digging needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_license#Dutch_tabloid has more instances of cc infringement cases and results, etc.
This guy is also selling a few thingiverse models (and other sites) on his website for rediculous prices. Smart, Ebay can't take this page down, only he can or his provider.
Yep, fallout helmet from here, trooper helmet from myminifactory.. and so on. This guy already knows the deal, he just doesn't care.
And yes, he is a member here, same name.
That link now just shows a white page, so it looks like the web admin of that site took down the content. Maybe if JPI had done that upon the first day he was asked, this might have not blown up as much as it has, not that I'm supporting the copying designs or taking photos without asking.
The US version of copyright (DMCA) needs to be re-written as with UK copyright, if more than 2/3 of item is copied then it's regarded infringement; less than that it's not. Take for example the Apple v Samsung case, the galaxy tablet was banned in Europe and US but the UK courts they threw it out the case due to no infringement, it's a free market not the same.
Whereas in the US with the DMCA you can't make another item. As you infringe it by making another item but it cost's too much to enforce it.
@geoffro could you point to the exact offending files your referring to or maybe a side by side links of the original and their files so we can inspect the licenses etc. I took a look and see similar files (i think) but nothing showing direct usage of pics or file blueprints from here. It could be possible they also designed a helmet, etc... Also it appears you had a dust up with him awhile ago, if you could explain the situation that might help to put things into perspective/context.
i like to give the benefit of the doubt before throwing people under the bus, with judt3dprint its pretty cut and dry...
no offense intended...
I understand you wanting to be impartial, no problem. I did have a beef with him, for selling other peoples models among other things. Nothing of mine is on his website, but the fallout 4 helmet from here, the blasters.. and pretty much everything on there is someones hard work- not theirs, no credit given and asking tonnes of money - mind you they are not small models, but again - the authors are all being disrespected.
I'm on a phone so links ill post later, but yeah not hard to find the original sources if you try.
Please understand this justprint3d saga has just come at me within a week or two of the same thing with procoprint3D, he used to have a tonne more models on there but he shuffles things around all the time its hard to keep track of it, it's not like an ebay system where you can watch things.
It's not a grudge thing, it's a "this guy is doing exactly the same thing" thing. Just not on Ebay.
thanks appreciate the reply. I was just having issues matching up files as the one helmet i found was for fallout 3 and you mentioned fallout 4, and some of the other blasters and such aren't difficult to model, so was hoping you had specifics to help in the "outing" of the infringement.So yah the links or screen caps of the link so if he changes thing would be beneficial to all and then avoid the user. hope this isnt true stressful on yah, it seems however thing are falling into place and they're going to get the comeuppance.
Even better, I'll message you with some other people affected by him and their makes, rather not post the conversations in public. By the way, noticed only 2 designs on your page, did you take yours down?
No i've not put up much in the way of models on here, most of the things i've designed/modeled were from years ago (as I've started 3d modeling around 2000 ish and picked up cinema 4d v4 i think, now their up to 16 or 17 i think , but I stopped upgrading on version 8 because it was too expensive for just me) and most of that is up on turbosquid which i get more money there if I don't post the files anywhere else. Most of the files I've done since i've got a 3d printer (which my first was a makerbot 2x, but i have a delta and other cartesian printers) i've just done one offs, gifts, or little things that I needed for various projects, but nothing that would benefit the overall community or be interesting enough to put up.
thanks for your message, and yep thanks for pointing out the offending files, yah clearly same thing. so just like with just3dprint, not going to support anything he does.
thanks for the replies my friend! (u got a new follower :) )
I accept it will always be an issue, there will always be dishonest people but loubie is right, if enough people band together when people do it this blatantly, hopefully it will discourage others from doing it as they might have their very own sadface thread. Selling the odd model here and there fair enough, but ironically the ones that do it can't and have never created one thing. Even if you look at procoprints designs, they are all just sketchup rips.
It's 3d printed though!!! It must be worth at least 9000 dollars or more just because of that very fact! JPI uses super high quality 3d printers made from Legos and match sticks! I'm emptying my medicine cabinet tonight and selling all my plastic bottles for big bucks on SleazeBay! I'm gunna be rich!
He better be printing in freakin pure gold for that price! Half of the things he sells he makes no mention of dimensions.. you could pay $150 for something that's 1cm high.
I swear, if you told the guy he could sell his grandmother, he would bloody well put her on Ebay too!!
And even if you said it was illegal, he would give you an 8 page copy/paste legal document on how it is legal!
I suspect they are selling their baseball collection for legal advice.
He would probably sell his first born to make ends "meat"...wait...I better not give him any ideas...
I'm pretty sure there is an international treaty against selling children... unless you upload them to Thingiverse first! :p
Seeing as lots of people seem to have, what I would best call, odd views, of copyright laws, I have trawled the interwebs for the best explanation of Copyright and 3D Printing.
Indistinguishable from Magic: A Wizard’s Guide to Copyright and 3D Printing - James Grimmelmann*
*Professor of Law, University of Maryland Francis King Carey School of Law.
I commend it to all you Wizards...
This is brilliant.
Well, JPI's eBay item count is down, now 2008.
All of Feb-24 items are not there and most of Feb-23.
eBay has had a long history of lawsuits from companies regarding copyright infringement (just think about how many fake Louis Vuitton bags sold on eBay years ago-- eBay had to pay tens of MILLIONS of dollars to the owners of the Vuitton brand-- so eBay will pull this seller's account within a week or less. Particularly if threatened with legal action from an established company (like MakerBot).
The fact that the people selling the files didn't seem to think it was wrong is hilariously ignorant.
eBay should also pull their store as well http://stores.ebay.com/simmsfamilyemporium/
I bet there some good discussion going on in that emporium
Agree. Mostly eBay just suspends userid's when they infringe - which then brings the store down at the same time.
Lets just put this whole Creative Commons argument to rest shall we, it's a red herring. A CC license is completely to the benefit of the person who receives it, not the creator who issues it. When I issue a license I am basically saying I won't sue you if you infringe my copyright in these specified ways. It doesn't negate or replace my copyright, it allows specific limited exceptions. If you violate my copyright in other ways I can still sue under copyright law.
The only way a CC license would be likely to come before a court is if the issuer violated it by suing the recipient for doing something the license said was permissible.
If a CC license were ruled by a court to be unenforceable, or "toilet paper" as some would have it, the copyright status would revert to all rights reserved not public domain.
Additionally, according to Creative Commons, a CC license terminates automatically when it is violated. So just3dprint can't rely on any arguments concerning the weakness of CC licenses because in breaking that license they voided it. As far as they are concerned everything they posted to eBay without attribution is for them without a license which means it is all rights reserved and they are violating copyrights on all of it.
Agreed CC is a red herring. You could try to enforce a copyright, unless you expressly stated that the IP involved was released into the public domain.. Nobody is going to enforce a copyright claim here. NOBODY. It is a moot point as well. DCMA is the way to address this issue. Your solution point is here (if you care to follow it) http://pages.ebay.com/vero/notice.html
You don't need to prove anything with a DCMA request; thus it is misused all the time. The idea that DCMA can be misused is intentional.
The DCMA was written to provide an exculpation path for hosting platforms, and to fast-path internet take downs on the part of large IP holders (records Disney etc). It coincidentally protects your work here as an after and/or side-effect.
Do you really own your IP when posted publicly?, 1) your interaction with software and websites might cloud limit or transfer your rights to third parties. If you designed in Autodesk 123D design; you might be obligated to pay them should you want to use your own design commercially. 2) Not as it relates to patents (any public disclosure is fatal unless you file within a year) 3) In practicality, if you post something you have lost rights to it.
On the other side of this; there is huge liability for deriving your design from something copyrighted by a large corporation. eg Minion. You are opening yourself up to huge potential liability even if it is derivative! HUGE exposure to you; none to Thingiverse due to DCMA. (Huge to MEGA Kim Dotcom because the US is becoming full of laws and short on Justice; DCMA was not written for him).
How many works on Thingiverse are infringing? That would be a large number? How many designs on Thingiverse are crap? A Huge number?
With 3d printing your real protection is TIME; it takes a huge amount of time to print things.
You would think there would be a market for quality designs. I would pay $1 - $10 for great designs.
I agree that none of us are likely to attempt to enforce our copyrights here. The actual damages are essentially non-existent and you probably couldn't squeeze statutory damages out of these clowns with an anaconda, although that might make a fun meme. You are also right that if you make fan art you at basically relying on the good will of the rights holder. This is sketchy at best, especially if you are selling it.
I would answer your question "do you really own your IP when posted publicly?" with an unequivocal Yes. Even if you license some aspect of it (as most of us do here) you own your copyright. Whether everyone will respect it, and what recourse you have if they don't are other questions.
On the other side of this; there is huge liability for deriving your design from something copyrighted by a large corporation. eg Minion. You are opening yourself up to huge potential liability even if it is derivative! HUGE exposure to you;
On the other side of this; there is huge liability for deriving your design from something copyrighted by a large corporation. eg Minion. You are opening yourself up to huge potential liability even if it is derivative! HUGE exposure to you;
Exposure only happens if you try to commercially exploit your design. It is perfectly within the law to make something for yourself. Like if you drew a Mickey Mouse and stuck it on your wall. Clay model a light saber as a toy for your kid. Cross stitch some copyright prose or lyric to hang above you bed. Etc. 3D printing a model you made, for your use, is the same.
I always thought Thingiverse could potentially be exposed, as a commercial activity, hosting such things though. But DCMA take-downs would probably be the limit. IIRC there was one sometime ago, a Tintin Rocket I think.
Same questionable position for the likes of Shapeways, if they make money out of printing your Tintin rocket design (for you), this is I believe a grey area yet to be tested. I suspect I know what the copyright holders think.
It is also not helped by the likes of movie studios not taking much action on Fan Art type stuff which had progressed to a commercial level on eBay, Etsy etc. I believe they leave it along as it suits them as promotion.
Same for patents too BTW, you can lookup a patent and make one for yourself, just don't try to sell it.
Idiots selling someone elses Minion design are exposed, not the designer (unless directly involved).
You don't need to sell copyrighted material from major corporations to be exposed; all you have to do is promulgate it..
"Do you really own your IP when posted publicly?" Yes. Absolutely. You don't "loose" your copyright unless you license it under something like MIT etc explicitly stating that it's public domain. Posting online does NOT automatically put it in public domain.
"1) your interaction with software and websites might cloud limit or transfer your rights to third parties. If you designed in Autodesk 123D design; you might be obligated to pay them should you want to use your own design commercially." The "work" is copyrighted, not the file. You don't give up your copyright on your "work" by putting it in digital format.
"2) Not as it relates to patents (any public disclosure is fatal unless you file within a year)" moot
"In practicality, if you post something you have lost rights to it." 100% false. So Google gave up copyright to sketchup because they posted the trial version online? C'mon. Really?
So because Google/Trimble puts a trial or free version of sketchup on the internet for everyone/anyone to download, then anyone could take the software, reverse engineer it, steal code, make their own version of Sketchup and sell it because by posting it online for anyone to download, Google/Trimble is releasing their copyright on the code? The license you agree to when you download the software isn't valid either I guess.
I don't know that any individual would pursue this, but a company with meat in the game might.
I just happened to cover the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act 1988) in my dissertation back in 2004.
Compared to UK's version of copyright I would regard the DMCA as the following I will use your words "toilet paper"
but as thingiverse is in the US then I would agree the DCMA is what governs use of this site and it's protection of it's user's designs. Also believe that the act could be written better so not be misused all the time.
I think DCMA was written intentionally by a few corporations; the same with the idea that copyright terms in the US are ever being extended. It is crony corporatism and crony-capitalism at its best. It is a different brand of toilet paper. Also the idea that folks here could be sued out of existence for designing a derivative work of movie prop (Minion chess for example). Folks just don't know that they are potentially incriminating themselves and opening themselves up to huge civil liability. How is that for toilet paper.. It stinks.
Viva Aaron Swartz http://business.time.com/2013/01/14/mit-orders-review-of-aaron-swartz-suicide-as-soul-searching-begins/
BTW the creative commons guy was tasked with MIT's forensic analysis of Swartz suicide so much for CC
Your world is so much more entertaining than mine. You a fan of Anne Rice and her takedown policies as well? Not that it has any more relevance here than Hal's investigation, but hey, off topic is fun!
Feb-24 Part II
► Thingiverse User, Thingiverse Thing, License, JPI Ebay Item, Photo/Render, Price.
► greeblin Warning / High voltage / Danger sign CC-A-SA 3D Printed High Voltage Sign! R $37.00
► xaqrox "No" Sign CC-A 3D Printed No Sign! R $15.00
► mb20music Peace Sign Keychain Or Medallion CC-A 3D Printed Peace Sign Keychain! P $33.00
► AaronAlai Glasses Frames CC-A-SA 3D Printed Glasses Frames! P $79.00
► cncpadawan Railroad Crossing Sign - Thomas Track CC-A-SA 3D Printed Railroad Crossing Sign! P $15.00
Kudos to you Michael for keeping up this list. I sure hope you are some kind of data scraping/processing guru and not doing this all by hand.
Auto-magic-manually, takes ~15 seconds per eBay item iif I can find the Thing on the verse, 95% its name finds it, otherwise google image search with site:thingiverse.com works mostly. As noted there were a couple I couldn't find.
A good solution is to file a DCMA take-down if you feel your item is infringed.
Interesting perspective - I can only say I personally know they are not the same person. ;P
Creative Commons is not law, and I'm not sure I've seen anyone here say it is. CC is a license framework to allow you to manage the rights afforded to you by copyright.
Design protection is different depending on what you are trying to protect. Trademarks I've no experience with. Patents have changed recently, and yeah, probably want to understand what you publish, and where, before you file.
Copyright, on the other hand, has a load of US caselaw that supports the fact that it is created with the art, not with the filing, so there is an argument to be made as to when you need to file - or at least that's my opinion.
The rest of you post I'm not sure I understand. If you are talking about the "Default" creative commons license used for an upload, last time I looked it was CC by A, which does require attribution.
Finally - would you mind posting the portion of the Makerbot ToS that gives them ownership of your creation?
@ccbdav "You gave consent to Makerbot to forfeit your rights to the file. Furthermore, if you're abusing licensing, which ALL of the files on that eBayer's page does, you won't be culpable for enfringement," you keep spouting this as fact, when in reality it is not. I'd suggest you refrain from posting, or now as I'm taking this, trolling, with your nonfactual posts and comments. Please don't be the Donald Trump of thingiverse...
Please never reference that guy.
@ccbdav "I would further posit both the eBayer (who has changed their name recently, if you haven't noticed) and loubie are GREATLY benefitting from this silliness."
um W@T? Loubie is benefitting? Please explain how...
"Creative Commons IS NOT law. And it is clearly stated in the CC agreement and in the Thingiverse TOS (terms of service) when posting on Thingiverse (should you opt for inclusion under CC) your design may be used for commercial purposes with or without attribution---unless authorized by Makerbot, the owner of your uploaded content."
um W@T? CC isn't law but falls back on copyright law, might want to read the posts from Michael (http://michaelweinberg.org/) on this...
Also the Thingiverse TOS clearly states that you own your content not the other way around, you are waiving your "moral rights" to allow the to show the content, but you still own it not they(makerbot). They just need certain rights to host the files, etc.
You're replying to this post on loubie's thing. That's how.
I read that post. It's irrelevant as CC isn't law.
@ccbdav sorry to burst your bubble but I've been a follower of loubie far before this or any of the other issues she's brought up regarding her aria dragon sculpt because she as a 3d modeler/designer post some good works and ideas from the early beginnings of thingiverse, so HER work that she is benefitting from not this tragedy.
and again sounds like flawed thinking similar to Just3dprint in that you disagreeing with something doesn't make it true as its been stated cc has fallback to copyright, which is perfectly enforceable, if it were not makerbot, and others legal teams wouldn't be preparing for their response to this infringement. while you read it certainly you didn't understand or care to understand it.
I certainly understand and care. I check Thingiverse multiple times everyday, but I mostly peruse the tools section. I didn't mean to be a contrarian.
Creative Commons "Licenses" are "toilet paper." There is no rulings in the US I know of (please tell me I am wrong here by citing them) that suggest that the terms of the Creative Commons License are enforceable.
Silicon Valley tends to "avoid" and "evade" many business conventions and best practices and then claims those omissions are "innovations." Evasion of Copyright Law is one of those innovations.
Do you believe that copyright is enforceable?
@wepollock9 they aren't toilet paper because they fallback on copyright law... might want to read the posts from Michael (http://michaelweinberg.org/) on this...
The problem is when you only look for violations of the CC license. Usually what happens is the plaintiff goes for copyright infringement instead of the remedies in the CC license. In other words, the CC license is the least of their worries. Something being CC licensed does not trump the copyright. IMO, anyone pursuing legal action wouldn't do so based on the cc license, but on copyright as the remedies will be greater that way.
You won't mind if we get the advice from an actual legal expert in the USA, I'm sure. If you read down the pages a bit here, you will see some case cites.
I don't know of a single case in the US where CC License has been enforced..
If you look at CC website you will find a smattering of cases NONE of which will give you any assurance that the CC License could-will be enforceable. In other words the CC License is toilet paper;
A copyright would be enforceable. http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ01.pdf
My guess is that if you post your work here (on this platform) you are most likely putting your work into the public domain (which is fine).
Sorta a moot point, isn't it, if you consider Aria a work of art, and that in the US at least, copyright attaches at creation. But hey, that's what we pay lawyers for.
yes! what @systemsGuy said.
You don't see the cases of the license being enforced because typically the copyright holder pursues copyright infringement when the terms of the license are violated. Keep in mind that the primary issue here is with the works that are licensed as purely sculptural (no functional use or more sculptural than funcitonal) and are licensed as creative commons non-commercial. Those works are still completely covered by copyright protections. So should the creator decide to pursue legal action, it would be for copyright infringement, not violation of the license.
CC is a license construct to manage copyright.
Yes. The way I have always looked at "license" agreements is they are not technically enforceable. They only spell out how a copyrighted work can be used. If you don't follow the license, you are not using a copyrighted work in a legal way. Looking at licensing agreements on software package, the old "if you break this seal...", all cases on that, to my knowledge, were bases on copyright law. Not that they violated some rule spelled in the license.
"My guess is that if you post your work here (on this platform) you are most likely putting your work into the public domain (which is fine)."
Same flawed thinking as Just3dPrint, posting isn't putting it into the public domain. Again refer the posts from Michael (http://michaelweinberg.org/) on this...
So where are the cases?
So what are the issues?
--Would a court rule that you are in fact protected by copyright here?
My guess is that they would not find that you are protected
My guess is that you will grouse (on a chat board) and that will be about it
Nobody here will take this issue to a court
What is the real solution?
-You as an individual can file a DCMA take-down with Ebay
Here is how http://pages.ebay.com/vero/notice.html
Most folks will grouse on a chat board rather than take the time to file for a DCMA with Ebay
You can complain to Ebay's help desk (it will take them a few days weeks to reply)
-Or Thingiiverse has to talk to ebay for DCMA takedowns
-Or Thingiverse has to test the idea that CC licensees are enforceable (won't happen - see toilet paper)
-Or you can offer 3d printing services on Ebay
Flaw in logic
-Failing to cite a single case to support a contention. My guess is that there are none. CC = Toilet paper.
Why the geniuses at Creative Commons have not pressed any legal issues with courts
--Because they just made stuff up
--You can say your work is protected by anything really, say whatever you want, it is a free country
Think of it this way; Say you want to produce a Disney licensed product. So you go to Disney and they issue a license for the use of their IP. You go and violate the terms of the license. Do you think Disney would sue you based on the violation of the license or the violation of the copyright on the IP?
Disney would sue based on the agreement.
The Creative Commons construct lacks the elements of a binding or enforceable contract.
So if CC licensing is not binding then the law would fall back on copyright. Like you said, CC is toilet paper, so then it becomes a matter of someone using someone elses IP without their consent ie. copyright infringement.
And nobody is going to sue for copyright infringement for a design posted on Thingiverse. NOBODY. You have DCMA which is mostly used to constrain. (it sort of goes against the grain of open hardware, open software, open 3d printing designs, making etc)
I actually wouldn't be surprised if "somebody" did, if for nothing else, to set a precedent.
might want to read the other comments on your initial post. as has been said yes its not law, so you don't take someone to court on cc grounds, however if the cc isn't followed you DO/CAN take them to court on copyright grounds, so if you want cases, just search on copyright lawsuits and there you have your precious cases.
That won't happen.. My guess is that You will spend hours posting here (you might as well masturbate) and do absolutely nothing real or tangible and/or have no real world result. Your avenue for protecting your work is here.
If you have a good faith belief that an item or listing infringes on your intellectual property rights, you can report the alleged infringement to eBay by submitting a Notice of Claimed Infringement (NOCI) to eBay's VeRO program.
I just read (http://michaelweinberg.org/) ; that article won't protect your work.. It is just masturbation. You can file a request with Ebay, accept the infringement, or sell 3d printing services on ebay.
my point being, that rather than have others do the work for you, you should do the work yourself rather then just make a blanket statement and claim cc is shit because I said so. If you could provide evidence to the contrary right off the bat than maybe you're argument would have some validity. Again cc falls back on copyright law and as has been mentioned here on your thread as well as other copyright is attached at creation not upon filing(if even needed).
Just as I have indicated, unless your posting is contains info of fact and relevance I'll just consider you to be trolling at this point.
There are no cases supporting the validity of Creative Commons NONE; that is why it is shit.. It means shit all unless it is tested.
Your avenue for recourse is here; http://pages.ebay.com/vero/notice.html
You are not going to sue anyone for anything.
BTW the ebay seller might be listing thousands of designs; but in reality he is selling only a FEW over MONTHS. Enough said. Happy 3d printing.
@wepollock9 I think it's all been said by everyone else but if your "creative commons is toilet paper" comments were true, all that would mean is that the copyright holders (creators) would have to issue licenses one by one to anybody that wanted to use their designs. Creative commons is nothing more than a convenient way for people to grant those licenses in an easy to understand way. So if there were no creative commons licenses JPI would be violating copyright law in even more ways than they already are.
you keep using those words. I don't think you know what they mean...
Creative Common is a license construct to manage copyright. When it fails, as it has in this case your fall back to copyright, which in their lies what you then take people to court on. Also again your flawed thinking is that only until a sale has been perpetuated does it constitute as infringement. Merely listing it, posting it, etc. IS infringement. Also again the thinking "its only a few sales" which is very similar to "everyone else is doing it, so its ok" is again the flawed thinking. I'm beginning to think that this account as well as a few other accounts with this attitude, are just dummies accounts of just3dprint trying to support their insane view of things. So thanks for the chit chat, its been surreal!
No Creative Commons is toilet paper.. it is spinning - circular nonsense. And so is suing for copyright infringement on a design you posted to thingiverse. NONSENSE.
Unless a corporation wanted to set a legal precedent to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future. Imagine the press of "4 college kids taken to the cleaner for flagrantly violating copyright laws". Might make others think twice about doing the same thing.
Thanks for your input....
Spoke to soon 5 more...
Only two for Feb-24 so far
► Thingiverse User, Thingiverse Thing, License, JPI Ebay Item, Photo/Render, Price.
► jack1197 Heat warning sign(designed for Makibox) CC-A 3D Printed Heat Warning Sign! R $15.00
► Botmaster Feather Quill CC-A-NC 3D Printed Feather Quill! P $46.00
has anyone bothered to look at the prices on the ebay store page? this store is, imo, trolling for attention at best. $199 for a 3d printed beer can holder? this store is a political statement on 3d printing or creative commons or some other issue. it is obvious to me that this person(s) is motivated by something other than money.
i watch these types of expressions (3d printing and the proliferation of those designs and artifacts) intently because as an open source designer, i am curious as to how these new channels will be used and exploited. i dont have an opinion yet, but when i do, it will probably be expressed as design. i dont think politics are going to have any effect.
a few years ago, DEFCAD copied the entire database, which didnt bring an end to civilization, and neither will this, especially at $26 for a 3d printed hair claw. in fact, id be really intersted to see if anyone bites at those prices. we are at the very beginning of all of this. doesnt mean i think its right or that it shouldnt be fought but that both of those things are part of a larger evolving narrative that is being written while its being expressed.
$444 dollars for a bicycle cell phone holder? Laughable at best:P
I only have two of my designs on Thingiverse and they are selling one of them. But when I uploaded them, all I wanted was proper attribution. So I went to the eBay page and asked for proper attribution. Now to go after my niece and my wife's cousin who I gave each of them 4 of those ornaments for free and tell them the owe me 60 bucks. lol
I am pursuing a strategy that might work for some of you, particularly the ones whose designs are being offered at ridiculous prices. I posted my own duplicate listings for the pirated versions of my designs. The pirate's prices were so ridiculous that I was comfortable offering them for sale at half that price. If you click the "Have one to sell?" button eBay will make you a new listing with the same name and category as theirs. A user can only list a product once, but if you alter the text and price you can use the same photo for different listings so you can bury them as deep as you wish as long as you are willing to print and sell the products if they actually sell.
Now these bozos are actually working for me, because their listing works as what marketers call an anchor price, it makes my price look like a bargain. I doubt I'll sell much but I don't care. It virtually guarantees they won't sell any of my designs.
Yep.. Just eBay search for 3D printed Spock hand memorial. 1/4 thier price.
I considered doing the same thing but choosing select models that are not flagged as non commercial, giving the appropriate attributes and following copyright law. My only problem with that is I personally don't want to 3D print as a business. I don't have a problem if JPI or anyone else want to do create a business selling 3D prints but they need to respect the creators and follow the law.
I don't much want to sell prints either and I doubt they will sell at these prices. But I'm happier knowing that if anyone is going to profit off these models it is much more likely to be me than them. For people whose stuff is in the $15 category this approach has less appeal, although listing a competing product at any price will dilute their traffic somewhat. And if people view both products it will develop an association between them so the ebay will suggest them as "people also viewed" on the product page which further siphons away their eyeballs.
You can always subcontract fulfillment of the orders to someone else, say via 3dhubs. :-)
Makerbot is working on legal action, and has communicated their intention to do so. That is great, and I thank them for it.
Makerbot is also a direct victim, as some of their designs have shown up on the offenders ebays site.
I am thankful they have responded, both in this thread, on the groups, and in their blog.
THANK YOU MAKERBOT for showing respect to your users and for standing up for the community.
From reading the articles @glitchpudding is the thingiverse community manager;
Maybe it's time to update the code behind the profiles so that these members stand out a bit more.
You should join the the User Group on this website (also called Thingiverse)......he posts monthly updates with web site bug fixes.
Yeah, that was a surprise to me too. I've browsed through many collections by @glitchpudding, but didn't realise he was employed by the company.
I've updated the Sad Face Thing Info to link to this.
Thanks for sharing, @rbschultz.
I've had issues with MB CS in the past, but will say thank you very much for the support on this issue. Your blog entry is exactly how I have viewed this web site's rules since I joined in 2013.
I currently have 2300+ hours of time on my Replicator 2 and it chugs away almost daily.
Hi folks, we have an update to our article on ALL3DP:
Included is a statement from @3DShook, a 3D printing marketplace whose designs have also appeared on the just3dprint eBay store.
Looking forward to seeing that statement from the Thingiverse team!
I was scrolling through reddit forums and found a post from someone by the name of Redicubricks back in 2015 about this very same type of problem, different people, but same problem, I found it a very well worded post:
[–]Redicubricks Redicubricks.com | Shop3d.ca 4 points 1 year ago
Hey There, I know how you feel. There are a lot of conflicting factors involved which is why it's confusing, but you'll be glad you're dealing with this now rather than when you do something more complex later that potentially has more monetary value.
I've been in the same boat and I share a lot of my models. My most complex ones, you could likely print and sell. Like the Lightsaber and Ducati models. People have printed and sold the lightsaber for a pretty high price on ebay.
I also have models I don't have available publicly, but I sell as physical painted objects, and I have things that aren't for sale, digital or physical. I made only for charity for a special purpose.
What I can tell you is you really have to be honest with yourself if you're actually ok with it being freely available. Free download on thingiverse means that people WILL take and monetize it if the opportunity presents itself. Going after copyright isn't going to do anything but zap your time/energy. You need to determine early on before you put it up if you will accept all consequences of doing so. There's obviously good and bad things that can happen but if you come to terms with it early on you can fully embrace the sharing. If it makes you resentful. Don't do it. You can't take the benefits of sharing publicly (the publicity, views, peoples thanks, helping, sharing) and none of the bad (poaching, non-crediting etc).
What you can do is learn from what people are doing with your object, if they're trying to sell it a certain way and they're successful, you can do it better because you have the design skills necessary to make a better version or something else entirely. You can keep your new thing exclusive to you and make better profit on it. Free objects on Thiniverse won't be able to fetch the same price as an exclusive item since other people can just print it out or use 3D hubs.
If it bugs you that it's being sold where you offer it free, let potential buyers know they're being charged for a free thing. But there are probably better ways to spend your energy.
The bottom line is you can't control other peoples actions or ethics once it's out in the wild, which means there's no reason for you to be affected negatively by it regardless of how it appears.
Just think, the people that steal and sell your products do not generally have the skills & understanding required to improve/make new things. They have no next step, or a business model that isn't predatory, no creative juice. They aren't ones to envy, but to pity.
So move on. Make cooler stuff and leave this behind. Be flattered that someone has thought your design to be good enough to poach. Be at peace with your own ethics and lead by example because people will see great work and great people.
Be honest to yourself as to what you want to achieve with each creation. To make money, or to share, or to improve skills/lives and put them up on appropriate platforms. Let it run it's course. Once you've determined and accepted that beforehand you'll be happy to embrace whatever comes without the emotional anguish.
The funny thing is, I DO have work I hold back that I am developing for sale and would NEVER give away. It's uses 3D printing technology in the development but not the final product. If people follow me of social media they may occasionally see pictures of the work as it develops. The free work I expect to be distributed but I fully expect folk to be capable of following licenses. Saying "well, that's people - what can you do" is an attitude that excuses all kinds of horrid behaviour beyond claiming creation of plastic dragons they didn't design:-)
The issue for me here is not about damage to myself and sale of my product - as I've said before, I've granted many commercial use licenses for my work but people have to apply. Of course, sometimes I've had to remind them to ask but generally people are fine and cool - I get my attribution and I'm happy. This is about the effectiveness of CC licenses and about education.
In fact, unless they've uploaded something else of mine since, Just3DPrint actually complied with my wishes and taken my work down. I'm not going to take down Sad Face though.
Thanks for your feedback:-)
Thank you for sharing this. It is very well written but I don't agree with the original author's idea that anyone just has to accept that this will happen. It can be hard for a single person to fight copyright abuse but we are becoming a Sad Face army. Another assumption of JPI is probably that the outrage everyone is showing will be short lived and that in a few weeks everyone will forget and they will be able to continue to make money off hundred dollar toilet paper holders. Maybe they're correct but I hope not. We as a community need to learn from this lesson and speak out against copyright infringement and report it not just for our own works but for all. Some sites will only accept copyright infringement reports from the copyright holders themselves but eBay is not one of them. Anybody can report copyright infringement to eBay which is why I started doing that last Saturday for multiple items stolen from other creators. If we run across items on other sites that are infringing on copyright that requires the creators to contact then it is our duty as members of the Sad Face army to let the creator know. It's time to take a stand.
Thank you to everyone that has up voted the techcrunch story up on the DTNS sub-reddit so far. A few more votes and we'll get the attention of DTNS and likely get the story covered on the podcast: https://www.reddit.com/r/DailyTechNewsShow/comments/477dqd/3d_printing_company_scrapes_thingiverse_and/?ref=share&ref_source=link FYI: DTNS has tens of thousands of intelligent and influential listeners (probably 50K+)
I agree with your perspective here. Don't agree with this at all: "You can't take the benefits of sharing publicly (the publicity, views, peoples thanks, helping, sharing) and none of the bad (poaching, non-crediting etc)."
Probably 90% of what I do is for the house, gifts for friends or charity or just for fun. It certainly "grinds my gears" to see punks like this JPI bunch unashamedly stealing from any of us.
For direct information on reply of MakerBot Industries:https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/thingiverse/dpSN-6Ub4Ho
Re: [thingiverse] Re: non-commercial and intellectual property infringement on the BayTony Buser, Web Developer - MakerBot Industries
say: Believe me, we take designer rights very seriously and we are preparing a response with our legal team.
Thingiverse website was not expected to become a forum, but it's a great ideas to interact users, thank's Tony ;-)
Well, if you can't beat them...
...Drop the price to an acceptable level, offer free postage and offer %50 of all sales to charity!http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3D-Printed-Star-Trek-Spock-Leonard-Nimoy-Memorial-/262304852173?
Note also in the below were two re-listings, these are the original listings, perhaps means
a. They sold
b. They got taken down,
This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printed-Heart-Paperclip-Bookmark-/262302759376?hash=item3d127679d0:g:GHsAAOSw~OVWy1EL
This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printed-Frog-Bookmark-/262302760454?hash=item3d12767e06:g:LSgAAOSwKtVWy1FX
Wow 600 comments, must be a record, also >23,000 views
Feb-23 Part III, they seem to have gone to bed.
► Thingiverse User, Thingiverse Thing, License, JPI Ebay Item, Photo/Render, Price.
► henrykso Six-Pointed Christmas Tree Topper CC-A-SA 3D Printed Six-Pointed Tree Topper! P $337.00
► dutchmogul Victorian TofuDogs CC-A-NC-SA 3D Printed Victorian Barkfellow Dog!! R $83.00
► tuxinator Chicken Cup CC-A-SA 3D Printed Chicken Easter Egg Cup! R $115.00
► AprilStorm Thermal Detonator from Star Wars… CC-A-NC 3D Printed Star Wars Thermal Detonator! P $51.45
► cymon Autumn Egg Cup CC-A-SA 3D Printed Tree Egg Holder! P $184.00
► dutchmogul Victorian TofuDogs CC-A-NC-SA 3D Printed Victorian Arfwood Dog!! R $83.00
► Pinksmore snowflake ornament [way too many snowflakes on T.V.] CC-A 3D Printed Snowflake Ornament! P $15.00
► TheNewHobbyist Toad Cat CC-A-NC 3D Printed Toad Cat! R $15.00
► dutchmogul Victorian TofuDogs CC-A-NC-SA 3D Printed Victorian Arfwood Dog!! R $83.00
► xifle *relisted The frog bookmark CC-A-NC-SA 3D Printed Frog Bookmark! P $15.00
► ? [ I couldn't find this one, obviously a T.V. render tho]() ? 3D Printed Christmas Tree Ornament! R $121.00
► makeplace Paste Pusher Animals CC-A-SA 3D Printed Buffalo Toothpaste Pusher! P $26.00
► flameblade Legend of Zelda stading hyrule's crest CC-A-SA 3D Printed Hyrule Crest Decoration! P $15.00
► FLOWALISTIK Low-Poly Stormtrooper CC-A-NC-SA 3D Printed Star Wars Low Poly Storm Trooper Figurine! P $38.93
► SchrodingersCat [relisted Heart shaped paper clip/bookmark](http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:242089) CC-A-NC-ND 3D Printed Heart Paperclip/Bookmark! P $15.00
► dutchmogul Victorian TofuDogs CC-A-NC-SA 3D Printed Victorian Furlong Dog!! R $83.00
► NathanSquire67 Dragon Egg - Game of Thrones CC-A-NC 3D Printed Game of Thrones Danearys' Dragon Egg! P $10.00
► Cort Easy Print Bicycle Phone Holder (Customizable) CC-SA 3D Printed Bike Phone Holder for Nexus 6! P $444.00
► yeg3d Holiday Christmas Deer CC-A-SA 3D Printed Christmas Deer Decoration! R $192.00
► brackett27 2014 Ornaments Collection One CC-A-NC 3D Printed Spiral Christmas Tree Ornament/Decoration! R $41.50
► ? [* I couldn't find this one, obviously a T.V. render tho]() ? 3D Printed Gator! R $40.00
20,000 of those views are various members of JPI trying to figure out how this got out of hand. I'm sure the HIP member sending the inconsiderate emails has been slapped a time or two for pissing off the wrong Texan.
Apologies - as ukcat pointed out, Makerbot has addressed the situation and has promised a response soon. See far below in these comments for that post.
There are so many replies and Thingiverse comment section is woefully inadequate for handling such volume. It is easy to miss something. Also, if you are like me, I didn't know GlitchPudding was the account of someone at Makerbot/Thingiverse. Nothing in his profile to indicate such.
Yeah - some kind of forum style "sticky pin" would be super useful - although it's rare a comments section gets this busy.
I have put a special update section at the top of my Thing Info and will continue to place significant stuff there.
This is a record-setting comment section. As a matter of fact, once, since I'm watching this Thing, my dashboard actually read the infinity symbol in updates.
The alphanumerics, there a a few more to come
Feb-23 part II► Thingiverse User, Thingiverse Thing, License, JPI Ebay Item, Photo/Render, Price.
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter *! R $28.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter ?! R $67.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter (! R $44.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter Pound! R $68.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter 9! R $62.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter 8! R $62.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter 7! R $61.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter 6! R $62.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter 5! R $63.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter 4! R $66.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter 3! R $62.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter 2! R $61.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter 1! R $62.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter 0! R $62.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter B! R $75.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter D! R $75.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter A! R $84.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter E! R $69.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter C! R $78.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter F! R $63.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter G! R $84.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter O! R $86.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter H! R $72.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter I! R $27.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter J! R $61.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter M! R $87.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter N! R $72.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter K! R $79.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter Q! R $94.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter S! R $75.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter L! R $66.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter P! R $69.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter T! R $71.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter R! R $78.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter U! R $72.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter V! R $83.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter W! R $109.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter X! R $81.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter Y! R $81.00
► 2ROBOTGUY Letters, Numbers & Symbols OH MY! … CC-A 3D Printed Letter Z! R $73.00
Hi i would like to thx you for the work you are doing,
I don't know why, but I actually feel a need to register an account just to reply to you.
I think it's something to do with my job lol.
I agree that sad face is iconic and visible and lovely in its simplicity. It could become the mascot for anything like this that happens in the future.
The problem is that it doesn't carry the weight of a promise of action. How can we expect a company to take action for us, if we aren't willing to show action ourselves?
While I originally proposed a flawed work-in-progress idea where we would pledge to take down our art from thingiverse unless a response was given by makerbot within 24 hours ... I think if sad face carried a promise that is simpler like this, it would have more weight:
"We the avatar bearers, agree not to upload any more content to thingiverse until the site owner (makerbot):
1.addresses this issue
2.drafts an action plan outlining how they will take action to assist the community and address the inevitable occurrence of this sort of thing in the future.
Because I'll be honest, I don't have a problem pledging this. I'm actually terrified of adding anything to Thingiverse now. It's unlikely I'll be sharing art here until I see them taking a stance that supports my art here.
i agree that Makerbot should be speaking out but one thing that people may not realize, collectively we are more powerful than Makerbot. Makerbot does have a responsibility to the 3D printing community but we have more power than you realize. If we work together we don't need Makerbot, lawyers or anyone else. loubie put out a call to all of us and we joined in support. Now we all need to let our voices be heard outside this thread.
Help vote the techcrunch story up on the DTNS sub-reddit to get the attention of DTNS and try and get the story covered on the podcast: https://www.reddit.com/r/DailyTechNewsShow/comments/477dqd/3d_printing_company_scrapes_thingiverse_and/?ref=share&ref_source=link DTNS has tens of thousands of listeners (probably 50K+)
Everyone should list as many Sad Faces as they feel comfortable with on eBay giving the story along with an attribution link to loubie and Sad Face. Each eBay user can list 50 items per month with no listing fee (after that it's still only 30 cents per listing). Whenever someone does a search on eBay for 3D Printed or 3D Print they should feel Sad Face's sad, sad eyes staring at them from somewhere on the page. A thousand listings for 3D printed Sad Faces will also get eBay's attention since they are only responding to the copyright violations in a hit-or-miss fashion. Make sure your listing is for a Sad Face for sale and the description is talking about Sad Face so it doesn't violate any eBay ToS and give proper attribution to comply with copyright law. If someone happens to buy your $15/$100/$1000 Sad Face you need to make sure and ship it to them but I don't think that will be an issue for anyone.
Here's an example:http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printed-Sad-Face-Buy-It-Now-Version-/322016394875?hash=item4af9ac3e7b:g:TBsAAOSwQYZWydyL
Sad Face hit techcrunch, I know we can bring Sad Face to DTNS and we will be able to get Sad Face out across social media and hit the mainstream news. Sad Face may be sad, but he's unstoppable.
This a great loss to the individual against communitarianism (Yes, large account capitalistic).
Probably what somebody hope with the action of JPI
ref.: my precedent message
You need to read a few pages below in this thread........they have assured us they are working with their legal team to provide a well-informed response that should come soon.
Thank you for pointing that out, I'll have a read.
I second that.
Has anyone thought about the possible bad press is good press situation here?
I've done a bunch of things to try and get this issue known, but every time I do I get this nagging feeling. The story is just so extreme, and the inability for the perpetrator to understand or comply with reasonable demands just makes me wonder if there are ulterior motives in promoting their company. Sometimes I just can't believe someone can be so stupid and so impervious to decency. Of course, we have the whole Martin Shkreli role model to contend with. Maybe this company is following in his footsteps.
What can we do to not only bring light to this story, but to also avoid anything positive coming out of this outcry for the (insert disagreeable title of choice) ...'s responsible for hurting us. It would be a terrible shame if they actually got business from this.
What may be lost is the people of confidence in a system like Thingiverse and Creative Commons Licenses.
Honestly, it does not he makes atractif other site like cgtrader.com (to name only one but the list is long) that defends copyright License? but by selling the object.
In what measurement Thingiverse differs and could be deranged large entity comercial.
It would be a great loss to the individual against communitarianism (Yes, large account capitalistic)
Hmmmm - how about something easy but visible. I'm changing my avatar to Sad Face! :-)
Prepare for the march of the sad faces.
No, but it does make it harder to ignore, and maybe makes a few more people notice. 100% in agreement that I'm not going to contribute more content until Makerbot responds.
Well. No content that's not a Sad Face derivative. :D
I'm sorry I deleted my comments. I did it so that I could rewrite them in a main comment post.
Agreed - see above. I'm giving Makerbot a bit more leeway than maybe I should - I've had to deal with lawyers in a corporate environment, and they just don't move fast at all.....
Me too! Let's all change our avatars to Sad Face!:-D
I thought of that as well, the "no publicity is bad publicity" scenario, but any benefits gained by JPI in this situation will be short lived.
If they were trying to just get free advertising, this is how I see them planning it:
1) JPI gets the 3D printing community all riled up (which they didn't seek to do intentionally, they gave a nasty reply to a few people one of which was loubie who didn't stay quiet)
2) They stoke the flames by making more arrogant comments on Sad Face's thread
3) They wait for this to get as much attention as possible to get their name out there
4) At the point of no return they issue an apology, pull all non-commercial license models and give attribution to the copyright holders of all other models
5) They think all is well since they finally decided to follow the law and stop being assholes
6) Everybody still thinks of them as assholes so nobody buys from them anyway and people buy from the countless other sellers that pop-up that didn't create a shitstorm on the internet
They have been adamant that they don't believe they are violating copyright law. For some reason they seem to think they're living in the internet before 20 years ago before lawmakers finally started to think about digital ownership and copyrights. Because of everything they've said I doubt they're going to change. Googling their company name won't bring them up at the top of the results and instead are going to hit much more popular sites, such as techcrunch, where people will be able to read the articles about Sad Face. Their name will be no good once this is all over so the whole idea of getting attention by being the bad kid doesn't pay off. Once everything is done they will most likely start selling again under a new name but playing by the rules next time.
I agree with your comment, it's been a while since I find JPI / just3dprint too reactionary. Are purpose may be other than sale.
We can suppose many things....
JPI/just3Dprint is one elements
But reaction/behavior of other contributor are interesting
for exemple:eBay does not stop the magazinThe legal procedure is long, And I do not even speak of the difference of understanding of international treaties, Need to made evidence of prior art in law suite
When I see all artworks on Internet without attributions, and I'm not sure the artist is been paid
Currently it is like in the Soviet system, the access to art is free. But in the Soviet system was the artist paid by the system.
Also, there are very good things for this matter. I Strongly believes that must be stay course despite doubts.
Most of the 3D Printing Press have picked up this story and TechCrunch running an article is an excellent start.
I think the issue now is that we are all twiddling our thumbs until Makerbot say something and waiting for eBay to act.
JPI are bound to get some people siding with them because well, it's the interwebs, but most people want to be informed and have a developed sense of justice. We've received far more support than anything else, so I'd say the outlook is positive so far.
I toyed with changing my profile pic to something that says: "If Makerbot/Thingiverse does not respond to the Just3dPrint issue within 24 hours, I pledge to remove my work from this website". I don't feel it would make much difference for one little person. And certainly for some others to follow with such a pledge makes them face a lot more work than myself pulling items down, and even more work reinstating them if demands are met.
Yes, it has crossed my mind. They are charging 60+ dollars for the letter "F" in the alphabet. It might be that bad publicity is good publicity to them. To me personally, that's a horrible way to start a business. They don't want to be famous, they want to be infamous! I'm pretty sure their business will tank soon. Karma is a...you know.
I posted the link to the techcrunch story on the DTNS Reddit today over lunch.
Please help vote it up on reddit to get the attention of DTNS and try and get the story covered on the podcast.
First bunch, I needed a break before hitting the letters of the alphabet...
► Thingiverse User, Thingiverse Thing, License, JPI Ebay Item, Photo/Render, Price.
► tc_fea Astrology: Aries, Libra, Cancer CC-A 3D Printed Big 60 Birthday Sign! P $78.00
► tc_fea Astrology: Aries, Libra, Cancer CC-A 3D Printed Aries Name Sign! P $58.00
► tc_fea Astrology: Aries, Libra, Cancer CC-A 3D Printed Libra Astrology Sign! P $32.00
► tc_fea Astrology: Aries, Libra, Cancer CC-A 3D Printed Cancer Astrology Sign! P $31.00
► skarab Customizable Ear Plug - EarPlug-Star-_20mm.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Star 20 mm Ear Plug! R $15.00
► skarab Customizable Ear Plug - EarPlug-Solid-_20mm.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Solid 20 mm Ear Plug! R $15.00
► skarab Customizable Ear Plug - EarPlug-Heart-_20mm.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Heart 20 mm Ear Plug! R $15.00
► skarab Customizable Ear Plug - EarPlug-Hollowed-_20mm.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Hollow 20 mm Ear Plug! R $15.00
► Bror Sign of the Horns Earrings GNU-GPL 3D Printed Sign of the Horns Earrings - Set of 2! P $27.00
► tbuser & mathgrrl Happy Birthday Sign (#photo from a make) CC-A-SA 3D Printed Corrugated Happy Birthday Sign! P# $29.00
► joec Admiral Ackbar "It's a Trap" Panaroma CC-A 3D Printed Admiral Ackbar It's a Trap Sign! P $15.00
► Gromfrog Las Vegas Sign (Update) CC-A 3D Printed Las Vegas Sign! P $75.00
► TheNewHobbyist Customizable Garden Sign CC-A-NC 3D Printed Seeds Sign! P $15.00
► SpoonUnit Plant Sign - ParselyOnTopExample.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Parsley Plant Sign! R $27.00
► SpoonUnit Plant Sign - OreganoCutoutExample.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Oregano Plant Sign! R $15.00
► SpoonUnit Plant Sign - DillIndentExample.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Dill Plant Sign! R $15.00
► SpoonUnit Plant Sign - CorianderIndentExample.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Coriander Plant Sign! R $37.00
► MakerBot YOU SHALL NOT PASS CC-A 3D Printed You Shall Not Pass Sign! P $34.00
► Husebot Endless love CC-A-SA 3D Printed Endless Love Sign! P $15.00
► singnow Hamsa keychain CC-A-SA 3D Printed Hamsa Keychain! R* $15.00
► Thaed Peace Sign by SLS ST. PD 3D Printed Peace Sign! P $35.00
► 3dnyomas Biohazard CC-A-SA 3D Printed Biohazard Sign! P $15.00
Note. Re tbuser & mathgrrl - mathgrrl is origin of design IP, photo is tbuser's
What car did you buy?
VW Jetta 118TSI Trendline 6 speed manual (stick shift), I think it has a different Jetta subtype in the US. After my old Subaru Liberty/Legacy was written off in hail damage...
Just drove home, very nice so far.
A McLaren F1.
(In my dreams)
Morning all, they listed 60 odd Feb-23 (so far) while I slept.
Just started building the list, up a bit later today (have to pickup my NEW CAR!)
Though I'd note early, the 5th one turns out to be a Makerbot design!http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printed-You-Shall-Not-Pass-Sign-/252297348224?hash=item3abe180480:g:5goAAOSwx-9WzFqB
Thank you for your efforts in keeping people informed.
Do take time to enjoy your new car though!:-)
Oh my goodness. I just checked the list of "their products" on ebay and found the Valentine's Day iPhone 6 case that I made! I don't mind that they are making my case and selling it, but it really ticks me off that the seller claims it as their own and is selling it for a profit! Do you think if I sent them a notice asking them to acknowledge that I made it and sell it for no profit to them that they would comply?
Not a chance.......go to the very bottom of this page and read reports of how they've responded to anyone who's asked nicely.
https://www.crunchbase.com/person/stephen-malkowicz#/entity I added the TechCrunch news to this guys account.
May I sell this on eBay?
It will be credited.
My models have been used without permission and attribution many times before. This is relatively old hat to me. As an artist I have to defend my copyright. What usually happens is that I contact the people, explain the situation and they attribute and they usually compensate me (maybe with some filament or just a nice sorry and thank you. Sometimes it's something bigger like a printer- it all depends on the scope of the use). I've actually ended up making some pretty good friends that way. I DO and HAVE granted license for commercial use for my work but it's not done automatically (hence my license choice), you have to apply to me (In fact, with Dual extrusion Aria I even put a note which says this). I also reserve the right to refuse if I want to, but rarely have. it seems somewhat unfair that the great deal of effort I spend creating these models is taken for granted but evidently the very small effort it would take for someone to write me an email to ask if they can make a derivation or to use my work commerically is just asking too much. Of course, there is the risk I might say no or not like what you want to do with my model. Personally, I think it's this overall fear of public disapproval, ridicule and rejection which stops people uploading work more than anything. Takes a lot of nerve to post your creation to the world - not everyone has what it takes.
My main beef with the Just3DPrint people was the lack of attribution, the scope of the number of models they took and their response when I sent a polite note to them asking them to remove Aria. And they weren't even using pictures of their own prints and they are offering a printing service!!:-)!
It was just so wrong:-) Sad Face(which took me about 5 minutes to model) seemed to me a good way to communicate to a community what was going on and to give people a chance to defend their own work should they wish to.
I've tried to steer clear of making comments in public forums so far because I didn't want this to become about me. I'm posting here because there are fellow artists, personal friends and comrades present. Of course, I accept I have my "haters" too:-)
I don't like the attitude that "if you are so precious about your work don't upload it". I have NO problems with people printing my work. If people want to use services like Shapeways and 3DHubs because they don't have their own printers then that's ok too and I realize that even that may well violate the NC clause and my associated copyright. Most people aren't artists and have no idea how long it take to create an artistic work, much less one that the artist (me) has spent time exhaustively testing to ensure easy printing no matter what printer is used. Look at all the makes there are of my work and how comparatively few complaints there are in my comments sections - I'm probably more proud of that than anything. It's amazing how many people really don't get this or understand this technical aspect of the artistic design process. It's for these reasons I want my work attributed and I use the license I do. n a perfect world I'd have a license that says "Please feel free to find someone to print my models for you if you like. Please don't have them print 50 for you, and then put them in your store for sale":-)
I do think it will be a shame if artists and other designers become afraid to upload their works and it will make the world that bit less bright. I fully respect those who want to put their work completely in the public domain (although that actually seems to be quite hard to do correctly from my reading) or use far less restrictive licenses. Maybe I am wasting my time defending my work I put up for download, but you know what? I'm going to continue wasting it and making models and defending them - I'll never stop:-)
Now I've made it about me. Well, I am an artist - we aren't known for our small egos xxx
Loubie, I think I have spoken to over 200 people in the past week that support this cause and maybe ONE person that has said I should shutup and calm down about it (probably JustSteal3D in disguise!) I must admit I'm more depressed than angry about the situation.
I don't sell my prints on Ebay, or not ones that I have uploaded here for free. Most of them carry a restricted license because they are based on Star Wars or some other Sci-fi franchise that I hold no rights to - so as I said, I don't sell them - so this guy selling my prints on Ebay isn't financially affecting me in any way shape or form - it's about the principle for me.
I asked him nicely to remove my print from the store and he refused basically saying the exact same thing to me as he did to you.
Going forward it's not a matter of being afraid to upload prints.
I think EVERYONE here should expect anything they upload to be downloaded and sold elsewhere - it's a sad fact, but it's a fact. If you don't want it sold for whatever reason, then don't upload it.
Now, that's no fun is it? so what's the alternative?
All I hope is that Makerbot come up with something special. I know they are currently addressing the situation but it would be good to hear more from them.
You've done it a little more civilised than I would have done it!
Nice touch on the Charity thing too.
Did you go to the @JPI (Just Parasites Inc) eBay site and click "Sell one like this"? That then forms a link between the two items so if someone looks at theirs they have yours pop up in the "you may also like" section?
I applaud you.
@loubie, you are amazing and well loved in the 3D printing community. Bringing this issue and Sad Face into our lives has opened the eyes of people like me who don't have anything worth stealing (or at least I thought so until I saw that for $37 you can purchase a bootleg copy of the one item I had listed on Thingiverse, which was a remix of another item anyway).
You never made this about you and nobody thinks you are doing that now. This is a community issue and the community is coming together in wonderful ways.
Thank you loubie for being you
I share your frustration with having your designs pirated. Sadly this has become, and will continue to be, a fact of life for artists in any digital medium. This happens no matter how well the data is secured. The only solace I can find in all of this is that someone liked our work enough to want to steal it so publicly and risk substantial penalties for doing so. I guess that is kind of a weird compliment. Or to paraphrase Oscar Wilde "The only thing worse than having one's work stolen is not having one's work stolen". But there are still a lot more good people in the Thingiverse community than bad, and I hope we will all continue to share and not let these jerks spoil our fun. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention.
Well said, Louise!
Very well-written and I'm sure exactly reflects the same attitude of most everyone they are cheating daily from this site. I only have a single model involved and I'm no "shining star designer" myself, but I do very much enjoy the sharing community.......when it's respected by following the rules.
Getting a lot of attention as days roll by.....
Here is a good read on how to handle JPI/Just3dprint if they have your designs listed and you don't want them to use. Following these steps will help document and build a case against them should they fail to comply... http://www.marketingdock.com/copyrights/dealing-with-copyright-infringement.php
Thanks so much!
I know it has taken some time for me (us) to comment on this, but I assure you it's not because we don't care. We care a great deal, and we're taking the time to deliver the right response in order to avoid the pitfalls that come with delivering a quick one. I assure you that this comment thread is essential reading for us. Thanks, Loubie, for this post for and for bringing it directly to my attention.
You'll hear more from us soon.
Thought I'd ask when the official response was going to be published? I know the user closed his store, but am still very curious to see the MB response. (I assumed it would be more than the blog post, which was good.)
Judging by some of the responses from the designers, there is a category that aremore or less OK.
Perhaps Thingiverse should introduce a "No rights reserved" option to licence and maybe a "only photo copyright" option.
This would clarify to people like Team Muppet over at @JPI that there are rights and conditions to the CCNC licenses.
Eric thank you for responding and I do appreciate it! This statement is directed at the company and not directed at you! The issue for me now is the lack of support from Thingiverse/Makerbot. Seeing that this affected so many members of the community it has become extremely difficult to be dealt with individually. This has happened on such a large scale that Thingiverse/Makerbot needed to take charge of this situation and should have reassured the community days ago which wouldn't have affected their legal position. A simple " we are looking into this matter and for legal reasons we can not make a statement at this time" would have meant so much. Thingiverse/Makerbot this is simply not good behaviour/PR from a company of your scale! It is completely obvious that someone in the chain of command should have made an announcement. The community is what makes Thingiverse. Without the community Thingiverse suffers. Like others have said it is not the use of the model or asking for the cost of materials that bothers me but the profiteering from everyone's hard work that does! The impression Thingiverse/Makerbot gave was that they had basically abandoned the community!
Thank you for letting us know. It is appreciated....
Thanks for reaching out, Eric. We look forward to further updates from Makerbot.
Loubie before I forget I want to say thank you! :)
An Open Letter the Thingiverse, Here is Your Opportunity to Earn Some Reputation for You, Makerbot, and Stratasys.
Why have you been so silent? The fact that neither Thingiverse, Makerbot, Stratsys etc. have commented on this in some way is fascinating. 4 college students are directly violating your own rules by taking thousands of the models on your site, and listing them for sale on Ebay. They are also being very rude to your customers and content creators. It is clear that Ebay is not a site that does 3d printing, it is a site that sells things.
Posters are saying that this is not your issue, but it really is your issue.
Its amazing we have not heard from you.
In the past, inaction on the part of Makerbot has resulted in a ton of bad press for their actions. They have let their once good name and customer loyalty get tarnished in the past by inaction, have been accused of ignoring the open source issues, and have lagged in reputation on their current printers' issues. Makerbot has let competition, via some solid inaction on their parts, erode their brand.
You, Thingiverse now have a similar issue. You are at the center of a great controversy that is very dear to those who are responsible for your existence. Even as other sites erode at Thingiverse's market, you now have an opportunity to come forth and make a showing in favor of your user base, once again. In a way that is similar to Apple showing strength against the power of the US government, you have an opportunity to show strength against a small group of college students.
I am 100% certain that if Stratsys contacted Ebay directly, through upper channels, Just3dprint would vanish from Ebay in a blink. You would have shown some desire to come to the aid of your users, Makerbot could earn some reputation points, and we could feel good about your site.
I have warned companies my whole life, as a consultant, about issues like these. I even laid out many years ago what was going to happen to Makerbot, and what I said would happen, did happen. The oft sited "An open letter to Makerbot: Why should I buy another printer from you." (easy to google, just type the first 3 words) I do this for a living, with Americas largest companies. Now to be clear, Makerbot kind of ignored me, and even taunted me, when I offered up my advice in the past. But if you sit by the river long enough, all of the bodies of those you warned will come floating by.
I am warning you now, you need to put forth an effort here. No, your content providers do not expect you to hunt down every user on Ebay, every person that has a one-off item printed on 3dhubs, or even a little Etsy violation here or there. But your content providers do expect you to do something about a clear and obvious violation of yours and our licensing, and in particular, one that does so with such contempt for your site and your users.
You need to put forth some communication, and you need to make an effort to fix this. Every successful and long term site has offered protection for their customers. And yes, if your site has value, than we are in fact customers, whether we are paying to use the site in traditional ways or not. Our payment to your site is in the form of our hard work in delivering crowd based content to support your site. We do have a choice where we post, and your market share is dependent upon our doing so on your site.
You need to put forth some communication, and you need to make an effort to fix this. Otherwise, your competitors will come forth with strong statements about how they will protect thier users, and you will look like you are behind in your actions in protecting your user base. Other sites will come forth with solutions, and you will look weak in comparison.
You need to put forth some communication, and you need to make an effort to fix this. I cannot understand how a post with so many of your users, and such passion, can go this long without a statement of some sort. It is amazing to me. The opportunity to show some strength, the opportunity to defend, and more than anything else, the opportunity to earn "reputation points" for Makerbot and Stratsys is so great here, that it is just amazing that you have not taken advantage of it.
You need to put forth some communication, and you need to make an effort to fix this. What will this look like in retrospect? Will there be dozens upon dozens of postings that say "yeah, don't expect any help from Makerbot, they always ignore the community?" OR Will there be articles about how Makerbot, Stratsys, or Thingiverse "took a strong position on the issue?" Will Reddit users refer to the time this happened as how Makerbot got owned by 4 college students, or will they refer to the time you swiftly and strongly helped your content providers. Will the documented history of this be that days went by, and that is was your users, who are putting forth such a strong effort, brought this to a close, or will it be you and your parent company that are shown as putting this to rest.
This is make or break for you, don't think it is not. Profits often come from chaos. Who will profit here, will it be you, or will it be another site that offers up a better solution to this issue, or shows force while you sit silent?
Who will gain from the internet history of this, that will last forever?
again im do not condone or approve of what just3dprint did/is doing... but i also dont think this is a makerbot/thingiverse issue but also didnt expect a knee jerk reaction from them, which they didnt do and you apparently were expecting, but thankfully now have done so.
but geeze stop being so melodramatic. yes, i remember yer diatribe "open letter" from the google forums and your being upset that you got a cupcake 6 months(or maybe a month) before the mk6 extruder was announced and were upset you didnt get a discount on a new machine, part, etc. I also remember the responses to bree and going there now some of your initial remarks have been deleted... Like then many people on the forum indicated back then to take a step back and breathe. I'd recommend to so the same here. Most of your points are invallid, except for maybe 1 and 5. Makerbot/thingiverse as is stated in their response yesterday, they dont own the content you/we do...
there really is nothing for them to fix, even if they required an account, multiple accounts could be created quite easily.
thingiverse along with other 3d file repositories aren't going away anytime soon, so yer doom and gloom talk isnt helping anyone. The only way thingiverse might go away is if stratsys decided makerbot wasn't worth the headache because of users thinking they are entitled to discounts upgrades for free, decided to shut that biz down, which they would just sell off the biz.. but they themselves have fdm machine selling to the prosumer and they are still selling makerbots. I have a makerbot 2x, and no i wouldnt buy another makerbot but im also not a newbie novice user anymore and can/have built cheaper more reliable kits as im more experienced now and certainly more comfortable hacking this hardware.
so just chill man, take a breath, and relax a bit. you keep this up and yer just going to hyperventilate!
Thank you neoteric! A lot of Makerbot's history I didn't know. As I have been saying and as you have stated why the silence apart from a brief comment a short time ago! I seriously don't understand Makerbot's thinking here! This may have been about someone else starting a situation with the community but it has now highlighted Thingiverse/Makerbot/Stratsys lack of support for the community on which Thingiverse depends upon. This is total insanity! As I said making a statement at the beginning of the situation saying "Thingiverse/Makerbot knows about the situation and can not comment at the moment for legal reasons" would have shown support and that you care! Saying this wouldn't affect any legal action you may be considering! I just don't understand your thinking! It's insulting and just mad! Why, why such a delay?
I wonder if it's time to inspire a massive takedown of all of our content from the Thingiverse website...
On their website they have a list of awards and mentors, has anyone thought to contact those people? it would look pretty bad for them if some of their support decided to pull out or rescind on the award/support.
I found the e-mail to one of their advisers and e-mailed him directly appraising him of the situation just in case he is unaware of what JPI is doing as this could adversely affect his career what he chooses to do with the information is his choice.
Hang in there loubie, sorry for the difficulties you are encountering.
I have more attorneys than common sense, and they all say you are correct. However, they didn't find any of my items on the offending site, so there's nothing I can do, yet.
I agree with ukcat, if you got one organized I think there would be a lot of people willing to assist in whatever is needed and support financially.
If one of them wants to organize a class action suit, I expect you'll find lots of takers on here. :)
Since I have yet to suffer any tangible loss, there's nothing they can do, for me at least.
As a startup, these guys probably owe more money than they have, so cease and desist is about the only avenue, albeit a very good one, to pursue. If I discover a site doing to me what they've done to loubie and others, then by all means, I will vigorously protect my intellectual properties, as I have had to do in the past.
Sad state of affairs.
I think its sad that ppl are being rip off and thay are doing it in the open because thay know ppl want take them to court because lets face it it cost $ or £ to go to court all I think it will do is close the door's to sites like thingiverse look at web sites like rapidshare 5 years ago you could download anything you wanted its gone why because ppl like the ones on ebay was openly posting copyrighted softwere and if ebay close's there site give it a week and it will be a new name and it will start all over again so big web sites like this one will just stop ppl posting or will charge to do so then ppl like you're self will think that phone case or that key ring I work on for 3days is not worth me posting if I have to pay and its sad because I got my 3d printer as a xmas gift and me and my 11 year old grandson are building a 3d printer together for him and it will be ppl like loubie,Geoffro,MustangDave who will inspire him to make 3d models or to 3d print and who knows to invent something that will change the world lol but to ppl uploading stuff THANK YOU :)
Ah, Thanks for letting me know Loubie. So (for now) I've got 2 of my designs on that account...
I'd read a few of the comments here and thare. 525 is to much for me ;)
But I was thinking of spamming the !@#$% out of it in the 'Questions' section asking: "why is he/she is selling content from a FREE giving community"
or find a way to give this account a bad rating (that can only be done is you buy something i think. I never use Ebay)
but, that's not working in the long run...
His jargon and crap about legal fees, is a way hes trying to browbeat the people saying "They wont do anything to me". The fact of it is, if we get enough people involved we can form a CLASS ACTION lawsuite with all individuals affected and inturn we get the right person who will take this jerk down. Its not about monetary gain or recourse, however it is the principal to take this jerk down for theft of art.. He thinks and knows he may get away with it, because someone probably wont come up with 40k themselves to take him down. However if 40 people came together with 1k each bam. or better yet. the 2000 printed objects, if there were atleast 100 individuals effected and can come together for this it would be far less out of each pocket. Get a probono attorney and may not have to fork anything out. I'm sure there is an attorney out there that will gladly shut this idiot down. After all there has been lawsuits for instance the lady who burned her crotch because she put hot coffee cup there from MCdonalds? Remember that? She won and because of her stupidity they have to put CAUTION HOT COFFEE. Comon sense when you order that kind of coffee YOU KNOW ITS HOT, yet some attorney took it on and won.
Look at his prices? Really? That's not going for monetary gain? And its competitive printing prices? 174 for a simple solder dispencer! Or the phone mount for a bike that took 10 minutes to print that ranges for the SAME model from 22 bucks up to 336?? They are undeniably young punk kids, screwing people over to either support his drug addiction or to pay for him to go to school. Hes probably the same kind of loser if we do enough research, he has opened a GO-FUND ME with a pitty story to get people to donate to him. CARMA will get his ass!
re: Coffee. She had a gagging order as part of her settlment.
Her Children didn't. They published images of the injuries on the internet, and did a documentary about their 70 year old mum's injuries. They don't show you the photos until about halfway through, and when they do, you don't think she was trying it on.
She got hurt really badly, and had the coffee been served at the correct temp (e.g. not boiling) then her injuries wouldn't have been as bad.
Sorry to change the subject.
I'm new to Thingiverse I joined mainly in support of loubie I find her work to be incredible in addition in support those creative minds I so admire. I have been paying very close attention to the issues at hand and since I got home at 3:00 this afternoon JPI has listed 20 more items to their ebay store. In addition to that earlier today I was able to track down at least one of the Board of Adviser's e-mail address for JPI and sent him a polite message appraising him of the situation, reason being is that the situation concerning JPI could affect at least two of the board members career's directly as they are held to higher standards both professionally and personally even if JPI's is acting legally which I doubt if the entities to which these gentlemen work for find their behavior unethical they could be fired or busted down. If anyone would like the e-mail address that I have message me. I would like to keep that private out of respect and him a chance to distance himself from JPI just in case he is unaware of what's going on.
More Feb-22 listings. BTW Anyone know what time zone ebay.com uses?
► Thingiverse User, Thingiverse Thing, License, JPI Ebay Item, Photo/Render, Price.
► shiuan Minions Keychain / Paper Clip…kevin01.stl CC-A-NC 3D Printed Minion Bookmark! R $15.00
► shiuan Minions Keychain / Paper Clip…bob01.stl CC-A-NC 3D Printed Minion Bookmark! R $15.00
► shiuan Minions Keychain / Paper Clip…stuart01.stl? CC-A-NC 3D Printed Minion Bookmark! R $15.00
► shiuan Minions Keychain / Paper Clip…stuart02.stl CC-A-NC 3D Printed Minion Bookmark! R $27.00
► shiuan Minions Keychain / Paper Clip…kevin02.stl CC-A-NC 3D Printed Minion Bookmark! R $32.00
► shiuan Minions Keychain / Paper Clip…bob02.stl CC-A-NC 3D Printed Minion Bookmark! R $26.00
► Mintismycolor Dragonfly in balance CC-A-NC 3D Printed Dragonfly Balance Bookmark! P $48.00
► pripla Bookmark CC-A-NC 3D Printed Butterfly Bookmark! P $15.00
► Alejoo Page Tracker CC-A 3D Printed Page Tracker! P $15.00
► Roland Dragon Bookmark CC-A-NC-SA 3D Printed Dragon Bookmark! P $15.00
► SchrodingersCat Gear shaped paperclip/bookmark CC-A-NC-ND 3D Printed Gear Paperclip/Bookmark! P $15.00
► PlasticBits Giant labelling paperclip CC-A-SA 3D Printed Giant Paperclip! P $15.00
► JohnA Ghost Bookmark CC-A 3D Printed Ghost Bookmark! P $15.00
► simonsayz Heart Bookmark CC-A-SA 3D Printed Heart Bookmark! P $15.00
► 102Creations Heart Bookmark CC-A-SA 3D Printed Heart Bookmark! P $15.00
► ahpaolo Bookmark feets CC-A-NC-ND 3D Printed Feet Bookmark! P $15.00
► bpormentilla Tree Origin - Bookmark CC-A-SA 3D Printed Tree Bookmark! P $35.00
► capitaenz Paw-Bookmark / Paw-Paperclip CC-A 3D Printed Paw Print Bookmark/Paperclip! R $15.00
► BouncyMonkey Library Attention Seekers Exclaim.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Exclamation Point Bookmark! P $32.00
► BouncyMonkey Library Attention Seekers Star.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Star Bookmark! P $34.00
► BouncyMonkey Library Attention Seekers Likeit.stl CC-A-SA 3D Printed Thumbs Up Bookmark! P $32.00
third time lucky?
Dude, you are the king at this!
Thanks, we'll see how I keep up if they bulk list. But I'm retired and I don't like rude uneducated babies doing bad things, so I'll probably find the time.
However it needs Thing owners to action the list tho. INCLUDING YOU THINGIVERSE, ANYTHING LISTED WITH A Photo/Render of 'R' IS YOUR COPYRIGHT OF YOUR RENDER AND YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
As of now ( before) they have closed the viewing! Congrats on that part Louble!
A note about JPI (aka Just 3D Print) and their ridiculously high prices. Ridiculously overpriced ebay auctions are often a form of money laundering (although ebay sometimes denies this), the Just 3D Print auctions may have nothing to do with actually selling your item, and more to do with moving money around in a way that appears (only at first glance) above board. The seller may just be a bigger scum bag than you initially thought.
A note directly to JPI - it appears you are up for defending yourself with a lot of legal jargon, and mentions of the (very real) high costs of lawsuits. So please note that I used the word "often" and while your prices may be ridiculously high, there is some slim sliver of a chance that the total sum of your expenses may really jump the price of a 3d printed part from $11 on 3Dhubs.com to your price of $211. Regarding my last sentence in the my first paragraph, I'll clarify and say it another way: The seller MAY only be a scum bag because they violated the creative commons license which REQUIRES that the next user / seller / whatever down the line give credit to the original designer, which JPI doesn't do (or they could possibly be a bigger scum bag for more than just that reason). I don't live inside the US, so I'm guessing the higher costs and the extremely high probably for failure on JPI's part will certainly deter JPI from filing a slander lawsuit. JPI, if you aren't detered yet, go ahead and research the likelihood of you winning any court battle at all in a Haitian court.
My thoughts exactly. Who would buy quite a plain Jar for $35 which doesn't even come with a lid?
Google "Just Print IT" and "Just Print 3D" - see it from the eyes of potential customers.
If I was sending sensitive product info and trusting IP to a company, I'd google them first.
I'll give you a clue which items come up first on Google: they are all to do with their "Fast and Loose" attitude with other people's IP.
I'd look for another supplier if I saw that sort of thing from the company.
Beware the name of the company involved in this case is Just 3D Print The one Made in USA
The other Just Print 3D is based in Singapore and run by SG-RUG [ Singapore Reprap User Group ] C&P from their about page.
When buying from a new supplier or company it's always good to read the contact/about page.
Obligatory I'm not trying to defend justprint3d or makerbot. There, I said it ;)
Do keep in mind that makerbot has no real skin in this game - thingiverse.com exists as a marketing tool for makerbot. The only thing I think which would get makerbot into the game is if their models were being printed/sold by the just3dprint - wonder if that is the case?
I have a few questions for the community:
I have a hub on 3dhubs.com and my prices are really low - I'm only using 3dhubs as a means to help offset the cost of my printer and materials. I actually think a number of other hubs on the site charge too much but thats just me. To each their own blah blah. A few of the prints I was requested to print were from things on thingiverse - though there was no attribution on request I simply did some research out of my own curiosity.
Also @loubie - your designs are really wonderful and I appreciate that you share them with the community. Ditto to anyone/everyone else posting content to thingiverse, youmagine and others.
I'll actually take your comment to the next level:
I actually own a small 3D printing bisuness, as well as a hub for it. Nothing huge, just a small college town operation, but we are registered with the state as a LLC.
One of the big tags we have on our website is "by uploading this you agree that this part is legal to produce and you have the rights to produce it." That's more a protection for us, but it's kind of a catch all, especially since we print stuff that dances on the razors edge of legal (custom gun parts and magazines, etc).
And we have had requests for thingiverse parts. Because the college has a strict "no thingiverse" policy, and a long and paperwork ridden personal project vetting process, many people just come to us and pay the 10 bucks to get their phone case made without having to deal with the college.
Our stance on this is that since the customer has to get the part, they know who made it and who has the rights to it. They are uploading a part that they know someone else made, and as such, they know they are just paying for the printing process + labor. I haven't really done much on thingiverse recently, but I plan to upload a couple files I've made to balance out the karma a bit.
What do you all think about this? On one hand, were a bunch of college students (just like these idiots) trying to profit from printing for researchers and makers, but on the other, we are still making money off of thingiverse prints.
I am not terribly concerned about one-off prints made of my designs by 3dhubs operators. They are providing a service to the community and most aren't making much money doing it. I would rather the person wishing to have the print made approach me about it first, but when a file is sent to a hub operator it could be tough for them to trace its origin. Besides, it isn't really practical to collect small royalty payments from lots of sources unless the system could somehow be automated.
I object to my work being advertised for sale without my permisson, especially through the use of my own pictures. But I am mostly upset about the attitude of these individuals. I think we all share that feeling so I won't elaborate. I try to think more about the couple of people who have contacted me and asked to license my designs (which I am happy to do on very reasonable terms), or one guy who asked permission donate a print of one of my designs to a charity auction! Now that's integrity.
When people get an item printed from someone with a hub on 3dhubs they are paying for the service of the printing, not the item or design. The pricing for anyone with a hub is setup so you have the base price for your time plus cost per cc. It's about covering time and expenses. JPI is advertising and selling the items.
Not that I have remarkable designs on Thingiverse, I mostly load things which were handy to me and may be handy to others. Only designs where I have put in much effort get flagged as CC-NC, basically because I wouldn't like others to profit from my effort. I would expect to be asked and perhaps an accommodation can be reached. This includes using prints (or photos of prints) of designs (CC-NC) for promotion.
So assuming I had attractive designs: Re Q1. If it is other than CC-NC, go for it, if you feel like it - offer a slice of profit to me, up to you. CC-NC as there is profit involved, I would expect either you or the requester to seek permission. However, if you did it for cost, then I wouldn't have an issue, personally.
Q2. Difficult to distribute back to source designers. Sounds like a guilt relief strategy. Tho I suppose we could list out favorite charity/open source project somewhere...
A few of the prints I was requested to print were from things on thingiverse - though there was no attribution
A few of the prints I was requested to print were from things on thingiverse - though there was no attribution
Perhaps we or Thingiverse should put a reference into the STL file header* identifying the design.
*ASCII STL the text after 'solid ' on line one, Binary STL 80 char header. Could be Thingiverse username and Thing number or url.
Adding a header with author/thing id into the STL file is a great idea.
It won't actually hurt anyone, but make it easy to prove if someone just copied the file without even resaving it.
Are there standard fields for such a purpose? If not why, not? Who is in charge of the STL format, put in a field for copyright and such.
(Maybe no great gain, but no loss either.)
Regarding question 1, I personally think this is fine even for "non-commercial" things. You are not taking models/photos and creating your own sale listing with them. A person buying a print through you knows where the model came from, and they accepted the license on it.
I agree with @MichaelAtOz if you print an item which is "non-commercial" and money is paid for that item then I say you have crossed the line with what is allowed and not allowed.
A few months back I myself printed an "non-commercial" item from thingiverse and gave the item as a Birthday gift or a present and no money was taken for print time or filament used, so that I believe wouldn't be a violation of the non-commercial licence.
In some cases it can be a bit "Gray" between what is allowed or not in discussion or the context of the transaction between each parties.
Yeah, look the odd thing here or there is not the issue here I don't think. Even if you sold the one off print you made - it's the idea of someone specifically setting up a print-to-order based shop entirely based on stealing our designs - I mean, they admitted it in several places but they have deleted a tonne of posts here (and said someone else was deleting them.. BS!)
is fine even for "non-commercial" things
is fine even for "non-commercial" things
You know in regard to pirated stuff, like handbags etc, they can and do seize the equipment used to manufacture the items. Making a profit from copyright without license is illegal, that goes for making a profit manufacturing an item, it is just cutting out the middleman.
@MichaelAtOz My comment was regarding printing services through 3D Hubs. It's my understanding that a Hub doesn't list models for sale, but rather a person finds a model they want and since they don't have a printer of their own they ask someone else to do it for them. The hub isn't actively using other people's work to hunt for customers with.
Edit: I've never used 3D Hubs, so perhaps I've misunderstood how it works.
@4MULE8 yes I know. As I was saying or rather implying, profiting by printing a CC-NC design is still copyright violation. I would want the client to specify that they own the design or show they have license to use it if I was doing printing services.
Trouble is most makers do not bother looking into the legal aspects of what they get up to. But that is the internet wild west I suppose.
In response to question 1
I also have a 3Dhub, so far all the orders I that have been uploaded to my hub have been designed by person uploading and requesting the print. I would ask the up-loader about the design as some designs can't be printed using FDM printers like mine. As the person is not always aware of the limits with FDM printing nor the amount of finishing required if supports are used due to overhangs greater than 45 degrees.
My view upon printing something from thingiverse would be
If the item has CC commercial licence attached to it, I would link back to the designer, use my own photos of the actual printed part; obtaining those photos by printing it first, then listing back upon my thingiverse as "I made one" I would also discuss the printing of the design with the person uploading it, then if all happy print it as my hubs pricing is fair. Also if I was able to too would pass a commission to the designer.
Now, if the item has a CC NON-Commercial licence attached to it. I would respect that fact and not print the item.
In this case with @loubie designs just3dprint have not taken notice that they SHOULDN'T SELL designs with a non-commercial CC licence; Also they couldn't even be asked to print them first, they just ripped the images and the designers photos from the thingiverse listing and placed them on eBay, not even set-up their own web store.
Question 2 relates to hardware which other thing all together not related to software
My use of thingiverse is to be inspired to design my own items and find designs which help my printer perform better. I'm more of a builder than a designer. My printer is an Ormerod 2 which is Rep Rap based printer which means 50% of it's parts are printed and it's able to reproduce itself to replace broken parts. Which is unlike most of the pre-built printers which the owners of thingiverse produce.
You learn a lot more about 3D printing by building one from a kit than buying a pre-built one, it's also cheaper.
Fair point about the FairShare. My thoughts there were more along the lines of something similar to / inspired by.
Good call on the part licensing check / response. A good idea.
Feb-22 listed items► Thingiverse User, Thingiverse Thing, License, JPI Ebay Item, Photo/Render, Price.
► xifle The frog bookmark CC-A-NC-SA 3D Printed Frog Bookmark! P $15.00
► SchrodingersCat Heart shaped paper clip/bookmark CC-A-NC-ND 3D Printed Heart Paperclip/Bookmark! P $15.00
► mshscott Book Mark / Library Shelf Attention Seeker CC-A-SA 3D Printed Like Bookmark! P $53.00
► DDDjapan Cat type bookmark1.stl CC-A-NC 3D Printed Cat Bookmark! R $15.00
► DDDjapan Cat type bookmark2.stl CC-A-NC 3D Printed Cat Bookmark! R $15.00
► coasterman Day 6: Bookmark CC-A 3D Printed Exclamation Point Bookmark! P $15.00
► lwanger Shark Bookmark CC-A 3D Printed Shark Bookmark! P $24.00
Try this format - not sure if thingiverse will let you see the markdown formatting I did. Give it a try.
Sorry to all if it looks terrible. Markdown is a funky language ;)
References for the curious - assuming my post doesnt look like crap!
Thanks, I worked out the URL markup, I think my edited format is good enough for now.
While I don't know enough about the law when it comes to the design licenses, I do know that his use of imagery belonging to thingiverse and those who posted photographs is definitely a copyright violation. Without photos these guys have nothing to sell. There could also be issues with the wholesale download essentially of thingiverse's database for commercial use. Anyway I'm hoping thingiverses lawyers are talking directly to e-bay's lawyers about a permanent ban for these "people". Anyway perhaps a class action lawsuit for copyright violation would scare the "crap"' out of them (BTW: register the photos with the copyright office for triple damages).
Okay I need to stop, this whole thing is making me cranky... but I'd really like to see the 4999 names of other's who are doing the same thing as JPI (you know they ones they said aren't as nice as they are.) I can't find anyone else though. I am sure that they are out there, why would JPI give such a specific number if it wasn't true and they had a list of them?
They made that up because they want to make it seem like it's ok. So just because everyone else is doing it does that mean If everyone was robbing banks, then I guess it would be ok because everyone else is doing it? Sounds to me kinda like a straw man argument if I recall the definition correctly.
argumentum ad populum fallacy
Ahhh, yes, very good definition.
Did you know 83% of statistics are made up on the spot?
Found the thingiverse IP Policy which contains contact details for their legal departmenthttps://www.thingiverse.com/legal/ip-policy
There is also the legal page https://www.thingiverse.com/legal/
Section 10 covers intellectual property infringement which so links to the above IP-policy
That certain restrictions clause certainly gives thingiverse a lot of ammunition. This isn't just abuse of the individuals is an abuse of thingiverse as a whole. I would have a hard time believing the lawyers aren't already involved (as they should since people will stop posting if this sort of theft occurs which hurts thingiverse). Although I haven't posted anything yet (I've only been printing for about 6 weeks) I have a few designs I want to post, but won't until this is settled.
I would look at posting the designs upon myminifactory.com They support the work of designers by having a tip system, also an account is needed, to download the free STL files. Which helps them know who download what.
Also they teach about having support free designs and the post processing of prints. Also the designs are printed by them so I they can say that each one is printable; Something that I have found with thingiverse is that some design just don't print as the up-loader hasn't given the settings or details about the printer used. If your design has no "makes" then it must/could be unprintable and is a waste of time downloading it.
Thingiverse might have become a bit behind in the times of supporting the designers.
As always read the the Terms & Conditions before you sign up, if your happy with them then place them there.
No, I DO NOT recommend MyMiniFactory -give it a miss. Upload system is so broken you are lucky if it uploads and when you do upload an item, it can take over 2 weeks for it to be approved (lazy? busy? who knows) No.. I'd go pinshape before myminfactory - and even then I don't like them - it's all the same tho, it makes no difference they will steal it from anywhere.
A note on the upload function being broken. I have found sometimes it's the web browser (firefox, chrome, IE, safari) used that causes it to not to work. For example when uploading an image of a make on Thingiverse I have needed to open the page in chrome rather than fire-fox; As it uploads OK in chrome, some browsers just have problems with the websites code. They also respond to support requests when issues are brought to their attention.
Yes, it's straight forwarded to steel designs and images (just right click it and select "save as")
Upon MMF user accounts are needed and designs are checked so it becomes accountable and it's working towards making it a better experience for the designer and the printer owner.
I don't think thingiverse admin's will disclosed how just 3d print was able to get the files without an account; Oh yeah they were just downloading them. Might have used the tool wget
Whereas with myminifactory you are sent a URL by email sent to the email upon the account to obtain the file.
That means that there is record in the database; There is also more protection and so what it takes 2 weeks to get approved. Some 3D designs can take hours to print and require a human to be present. It's also newer than thingiverse.
What is actuality done with the files is down to the human and that can only be controlled by education and licences which are respected and enforced. I.E Think back to what eBay was like back in 1990-2004, it's more regulated and fairer now than it was back then but still has problems due to the humans that used it then abuse it.
The reason I like this place is because I can upload a model, and someone can print it immediately. I know it's printable, I don't need nor want to wait for myminifactory 2 weeks to tell me it's printable :p
When I started printing back in 2011.
I downloaded an STL file which was presented to me as nicely 3D rendered view of a shopping trolley upon thingiverse. I thought "cool"
I went to print it upon my printer and it was just a mess of filament upon the plate. I more experienced printer user looked at the file and stated it had no structure to it and the wall's were too thin. In the end it was unprintable and I understood why it had no "makes" That made me :-(
Other files that I have downloaded from thingiverse have had design errors in them causing problems when printing.
Yes I agree that you know it's prints but the down-loader might not and won't leave a comment in the listing saying anything negative about it in case it upsets the designer; If a comment was left the response could be just "it printed upon my printer" they just walk away.
Also some of the designs are more suitable for maker-bot printers which produce their own version of g-code rather than rep rap g code use by other printers. Sometimes the design file can have errors as the design file has been uploaded/exported from within the printer's control software which can make it hard for other printers to produce the item.
MMF is helping the down-loader by saying it's printable not to the designer. Yes I agree that available to print immediately upon thingiverse but it's also easy for it to be taken as Just 3D Print have shown with no regard to it's licence.
If designers don't upload their designs then all you get is a "closed loop" process, with a pay to access model. The down-loader might download your file, pay for it and find it's unprintable. Where it's upon your hard drive and it's not proven by your peers or other designers as valid design and printable.
Well, if it is anything to go by, alot of the designs they are selling have never been tested or printed, I believe they lack the ability to modify a mesh in anyway, they seem incapable of modelling anything themselves, so they are going to sell something and not be able to deliver - many times over. They have not been selling these things long, they will most likely self implode if we are lucky.
How funny would that be if they stole this sad face design and started selling it on ebay?!
It looks like Just3DPrint has started Just3DPrinted and is posting this again on that ebay site for sale.
I think that particular listing is meant as a joke:-) In any case, as I am attributed in the listing and Sad Face has a CC-AT license then they are perfectly entitled to sell copies of him.
What is worrying is the actual Just3DPrint have uploaded more objects today:
With the newly listed items upon the above link, there seems to be a patten
Any item which is $15 has a Non-commercial CC licence attached to it's design.
Any other item which has silly price upon it has a commercial licence attached to it. I.E $53.00 for this itemhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printed-Like-Bookmark-/252296431372?hash=item3abe0a070c:g:L8oAAOSwx-9Wy0~k
They charge by volume the higher price ones are bigger, I presume $15 is their min price.
Maybe that's right but then there seems no sense in there pricing or methods. As that 3D-Printed-Like-Bookmark I linked to the post above this one; Has a volume of 5.3cm^3 and would use about 2.2metres of filament, approx on 1Kg roll of PLA you get 330metres. The print time would under 15mins. Not worth the $53 (£37.47) price tag not including the shipping. That one print job earns them a reel of speciality filament.
Looks like most of these listings are scripted, requiring no effort or thought process from JPI aka just3DPrint
If I linked back to the designer using the thingiverse listings URL and used the printed item as the photo and sold via my site.
I would sell it for a £1 ($1.41) or just give it away as it has a commercial licence attached to it.
They are ripping people off by selling the designs by printing upon their printer then selling them via eBay with no returns policy and relying on people that don't know the real cost or process involved.
Are they even listed as a Business Seller upon eBay?
Are they reporting their TAX payments? IRS, I believe for the US?
Perhaps they do like Shapeways and measure a bounding box, that link bookmark has a long tail, hence a big BB.
Download and install netfabb basic, load said model into the program and the information boxes on the right hand side state the dimensions as
and the Volume 5.3cm^3
I would say they just times it's volume (5.3cm^3) by 10 which gives them $53
If you use their pricing on their website of I believe 0.75c per CM that's gives you a price of $3.98 <-- a much fairer price
my workings 0.75 x 5.3 = $3.98
The item which was listed at the top of that link "The 3D Printed Frog Bookmark" has an Non-commercial CC licence attached to it.
Listed on the 22nd Feb 10:20
eBay item number:
Here is the thingiverse listing for the above item https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:130517
Nope, read their description.
Congratulations for the iniciative
Just to give a shout out to how this all started, (maybe as this was going on for a while before last week).. My Thingiverse "Subaru Gas Cap Lanyard / Tether" was discovered for sell on eBay by stiffx, a citizen of Thingiverse, and a message was posted to me on 2/16. At that time, since I don't have an eBay account, my husband contacted JPI to ask him to take it down. When we received his response, (the same ugly response as so many others) we went to the community. Both my husband and I emailed 20 or 25 Thingiverse citizens to let them know they too had their designs stolen. My husband was the one that contacted Loubie on 2/16 about her beautiful Aria the Dragon design. I want to give props to Stiffx for discovering this issue and to Loubie for bringing this to the brighter light. Loubie's awesome sad face design and willingness to help expand this issue not just to Thingiverse, but so many other avenues is really a great platform for this issue.
I know Loubie has already taken so much of her time and effort into this cause and just want to say Thank You!! You are an amazing designer, and that can be seen by the beautiful designs you have shared with this community. I only hope that we will still be blessed with more amazing work from all the citizens of Thingiverse into the future.
For anyone tempted to be intimidated by the nonsensical blabbering of just3dprint,
just because they think/say so, does not make it so.
See this second post byhttp://michaelweinberg.org/post/139675844685/the-plight-of-thing-1350837-continued
The problem for me now isn't just the case whether banning them or not will solve anything but the lack of response from Makerbot to reassure the community! They have had plenty of time to issue an acknowledgment to the situation! They don't have to give a proper statement yet but an acknowledgment to the community that they are looking into the matter and will make a statement in due course would go along way in showing they are supporting the community members and that they are aware of the situation! Makerbot's lack of response is simply not good enough!
a) I don't condone or even think these asshats are mildly cool, so don't think my responses are "defending them"...
I'm not sure what you expect thingiverse/makerbot to do about it. Banning their account (which looks like they created solely to reply to comments) isn't going to do anything, as you don't need an account to download files, and there is no restriction on just creating another account. Plus beyond their own admission their accounts and the systems are completely separate thinkiverse/ebay.
Also i'm sure in thingiverse sees this as a 3rd party issue between users and nothing they can stick their maw into. As its up to the individuals infringed upon to take matters into their own hands, unless you're advocating for a MPAA or RIAA type of org to be created to "protect" our rights. I don't fault thingiverse/makerbot for this in the slightest. I do fault makerbot for their shitty 3d printers especially the 5th edition makerbots and charging the money they do for crap bots...
just my two cents.
The point of banning was made by other community members! My comment is about the lack of public support by Makerbot to reassure the community that really bothers me now! What I expect is for Thingiverse staff to communicate the situation to Makerbot and release a community statement to say they are aware of the situation and will address this ASAP! Two many people are involved in this now and Makerbot need to take charge of this situation to show when something happens on this scale they are on the case and not abandoning community members to fight for themselves! It's all about Makerbot stepping up to the plate and showing that when these situations arise they will do their utmost to help and resolve the issue! This is affecting artists and makers who help keep the Thingiverse website ticking over which is in the interest of Thingiverse and Makerbot! I am extremely disappointed with the silence from Thingiverse/Makerbot!
Point taken. They have to know about it so there's no reason they couldn't issue a simple "we're looking into the matter and will issue a formal response later" type message.
I found this info on their website (http://www.just3dprint.com)
I am still searching through their eBay listings for any of my designs. I omitted the names listed on the website as there were a couple names that seemed highly unlikely to truly be part of this train wreck.
Feel free to spam them!
The number posted below was found on the just3dprint website and is therefor PUBLIC info/knowledge.
(610-945-7702 or email us at info@just3Dprint.com)
Board of Advisors
Just 3D Print, Inc. is the combination of a lot of hard work by four college students. We have long shared a passion for entrepreneurship, engineering, and American manufacturing so we decided to put our lots together and start this company in early 2014. We are headquartered out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania but are able to serve anyone across the US. While we may be young, we are hard working and will do our best to fulfill any order sent our way.
Enter your information below and we will do our best to get back to you within 24 hours. If you are requesting for a part to be made, it would be helpful if you could include its rough dimensions and the material it is made of. Alternatively, you can give us a phone call at 610-945-7702 or email us at info@just3Dprint.com. Currently, we charge 75c per cubic centimeter or material compared to an industry average of $3 so we are very competitive on price and hope that you will try our service.
I'm sure Thingiverse and makerbot haven't had time to come up with an appropriate response yet. This has exploded in the last few days. Whatever their response I would like to see the default creative commons license on all models updated include non commercial and allow artists to take that off on any models they choose rather than needing to consciously take time to add it.
You already can change the default lic under your profile ...
"Default License - The default license for your newly uploaded things"
Yes it can be done on an individual basis but my point was that they should have every new account defaulted to non commercial because most people don't take time to look at or change any default settings. I should have been more clear on that.
Not that it would matter in the current situation since JPI doesn't believe they need to follow U.S.copyright law and have been using many non commercial models and still professing they don't need any kind of license from the copyright holders.
Once this business venture ends I'm sure they will start a website reposting articles from legit news sources with no reference to the original source because according to them once something is on the internet it's public domain and they can do what they want with it.
Some of my models also was stolen (((
I am sad.
Me parece muy bonito eso que has hecho, aunque haya sido por algo triste.
Te aplaudo por la manera en que has hecho la protesta.
I find it very nice that you have done, although it has been a sad event .
I applaud you for the way you made the protest.
Has anyone else emailed Makerbot! Makerbot owns Thingiverse. So Makerbot who put the terms and conditions on this website that covers Non-Commercial license useage should be taking this on their shoulders and sorting this out! I am quite amazed at the lack of support for Thingiverse community members in this situation! What is the point of having the terms and conditions that cover Non-Commercial use if Makerbot doesn't back up their words! It means nothing! Come on Makerbot, where is your support for the community that keeps Thingiverse running! This is not good Public Relations! Some sign of support and action would be very grateful! Im getting close to pulling any of my work including asking other members that have fairly shared my work from Thingiverse!
I will be pulling all my work including the works I have shared from you and others if something isn't done by the end of the week.
I just did that yesterday. I've emailed them asking them to at least ban JPI from thingiverse. After three days of no response, I pulled all 12 of my models.
Banning JPI accomplishes nothing. I'm pretty sure the models were downloaded without an account. The JPI account was created just so they could try to tell the community that they're American heroes creating American jobs and that it's the artist's fault their work was stolen.
You were betrayed by a couple of arrogant and self-righteous business school students, not by Thingiverse. Thingiverse admin are probably getting hundreds of emails like yours, so I'm not really surprised they haven't been able to respond to you personally just yet.
Possible solutions (for future prevention) could involve Thingiverse requiring users to register, or adding an optional feature to watermark your images so they can't be "borrowed" so easily.