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LowRider CNC -Full Sheet 4x8 CNC Router-

by Allted, published

LowRider CNC -Full Sheet 4x8 CNC Router- by Allted Jan 7, 2017

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Summary

All the parts are here. The assembly instructions are getting worked on now.

Full Sheet capable (4'x8') cnc router.

Inspired and by the PrintrBot Crawlbot, and made with the permission of Brook Drumm.

Info Page, (details slowly filling in), Vicious1.com

Questions should be answered as parts and info are updated and released, but feel free to ask here, Vicious1.com forum.

I am slowly gathering the harder to find parts and have them in the shop, Vicious1.com Shop, as well as a hardware kit, more to come..

Quick test video, https://youtu.be/oVJQ43lvtWA
Here is an actual project being cut, It's boring but you can get a good Idea of how it works. https://youtu.be/-KipQFK8YKc

Print Settings

Printer:

MP3DP

Rafts:

Doesn't Matter

Supports:

No

Resolution:

.25mm-ish

Infill:

55%- approx


Notes:

More info to follow on the Vicious1.com site.

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my main curiosity with your design is what keeps the X axis from shifting side to side? The 4 wheels per side are the only things i see on your plan or in the videos on your website for the support and guidance of the carriage while traversing the Y-axis. Is there something i'm missing here?

Depends on your build. Mostly the lower wheels will stop it, some people drag the z bars along the rials, so the lower wheels aren't really necessary. Good Gcode doesn't have much drag on the cutter though, its a cool thing getting the code dialed in just right, smooth and easy. Also the extremely short axis helps, the deep in the cut it gets the shorter the axis the more rigid the machine, sounds great in theory and actually works out that way. I got lucky with that one.

Comments deleted.

so the wheel is actually inline skate wheel? this one seem more suitable for my foam cnc instead of mpcnc

Why? I think harder durometer wheels are pretty ideal for this.

I drove forklifts and they all had Polyurethane wheels as well.

why? because the amazon link posted on the website redirected to an inline skate wheel, plus not sure where to source other wheel for this

I sell some in the shop on the site as well but yes they are hockey wheels.
I'm asking about this "this one seem more suitable for my foam cnc instead of mpcnc"? I don't understand what you are asking here.

sorry for the confusion :) what I meant was this cnc is more suitable for my use (only cutting foam) since it use dedicated tables, I can move it anywhere I want and store it upright when not being use

Ahhhhh, yup. I park mine at the end of the table and use it as my shop table when not in use.

Could you release 25mm version.

I have an MPCNC but doing only wood work with it.
I have a not so good precision of +1mm (my MPCNC is 1,3meter x 1,3m).

Do you think that low rider could be better in precision (I mean that rigidity is improved) (without taking belt into account)

Thanks a lot for your job

Can you verify that you are looking for stainless steel tubing, this does not run on conduit. So far most all people can get 25.4mm OD stainless.

Yes for large wood projects this is a much better choice.

I'm in France and metric system is used.
it's very hard to find 25,4mm stainless steel tubes.
Instead, 25mm is very common

Okay, I get the metric system part, for some reason those 1"OD stainless has been pretty easy to find in any large country. I have actually only had one other request for 25mm and he wanted to use Conduit. If your local steel supplier can't find 1" and you can't find it online, I can add a revision to the list but at this time I can say it might be a while. I have to catch up with 1" parts production first, then I will see about a new version. I can do it but it is not as easy as my just changing one number in CAD, it can take up to a weeks worth of time to revise it.

I get a lot of hate mail about that. I promise it's just not me being lazy, it is actually very difficult as I use tight tolerances.

On top of all that the only tool mount so far is the dewalt 611, can you get that or have another tool that might work?

NP, I understand that it is not so easy to change :-)

I have a "classic" 500W spindle. So I will design later a mount for it.
I'm not in a hurry, I just wanted to let you know.

Thanks

Any news on a metric version? Do you have point in time in mind?

You can't find 1" OD stainless tubing? This isn't the same as conduit very few have had an issue finding it.

The Y-611 bracket could i get the outside dimensions i feel like my file is not right for size being too large.

Thanks

About 273mm x181mm

ya fusion 360 is giving me 1040mm x 400mm any thoughts

It was saved in mm, so you need to import it in mm.

thanks that seams a bit better i dont know why it did that thought i imported them in mms

how do you design the parts I am trying to make Y_611 and other parts to use 1.5" tubes in X axis I know use solid works which software do you use?

I use SolidWorks.

At 1.5" you will be adding a ton of mass, moving that around quickly will not be easy.

Do you think the Low Rider would make a Stable Large Scale 3D Printer Lets say max 24 to 36 inch Print height.
I have a Steal Framed Table Made out of 1/2 Angle Iron 10ft long by 7 Feet Wide welded together I was going to Use it for My First MPCNC until I realized I would have the Major Sag Issues running Pipe that Distance.
But with this one I think it would be perfect for Large Scale 3d Printer / Laser Cutter

No, that is way too tall for this machine.

JUust found this Reading threw it now thanks for Quick response
https://www.vicious1.com/forum/topic/low-rider-3d-printer/

What program can i use to do machining, i want to hook up my dremel to my 3d printer so i can cut out some small parts

Can someone lead me to a good slicing and printing software I have been using repetier but it keeps misalignment the layers as it prints. I know my bed is level, all belts are tight and im running it at the slowest speeds so I am guessing its the software ??

I doubt it is the software, repetier is one of the biggest longest in use slicer, second to pronterface I believe. Other than that, matter control, craftworks, simplify3d, cura, slicer prusa edition, many others.

Pictures in the vicious1.com forums would really help diagnose your issues.

Btw love the cnc Design cant wait to build one myself

Can't wait to see your build!

I built a new belt tension assembly and adjusted the belt to have a straight side to side pull and not a slight upward pull it had prior, I also noticed my acrylic frame is broke by one of the z stepper motors I super glued it as best as possible but it still has a good bit of flex in the frame, still fixed most of the problem i was having. just have to get a frame from somewhere now, for that matter i need a new heat bed to oh well

I am missing mount strap part to print. (Just starting printing the parts so i can save some money to buy the set from you while i am printing the parts)

Full Graphic Smart Controller Case
by Allted

I don't have the room for both a MPCNC and a Lowrider - if you had to choose one or the other, over an approximately 18"x36" area - do you think the Lowrider could potentially be more rigid?

For what uses?

Thin/sheet stuff the Lowrider wins, multipurpose mpcnc wins. If they were both built low I don't really know which would be better, I can only be sure at a larger size the Lowrider wins but I would guess the mpcnc is more precise.

It looks like another amazing design! I look forward to building it some time in the future. Though, first, I am going to build the MPCNC. :-)

If you don't mind me asking, how close is the LowRider to "release"? What I mean is, are the designs/parts likely to change drastically within a few months? I am not expecting certainty, since life happens, but I figured that I would ask.

Thank you for your great designs, I look forward to playing with them. :-)

Thanks for the compliments

I was worried some things might need to change, but there are a few out there now and everything seems stable. 3 months since I released it and no issues. So I would say it is pretty stable for now. As with anything you make once it is built you see things you would like to change but at this point, I would rather focus on using it for a while than sitting behind a desk doing any kind of redesign. I am getting jealous of some of my users, they get to play with the machines way more than I do.

Cool, thank you for replying so quickly. :-) Yeah, I can understand wanting to play around with something that you designed and put together. Have fun! :-)

if I understand correctly, you entire Z assembly and Center Assembly is supported by the "Z Lead Nut assembly"?
This mean you are pushing on the Z axis stepper motor shaft?

This is interesting and lots of my questions are regarding the table but you have answer some in the comments and I will keep looking here
https://www.vicious1.com/lowrider-cnc/

thank you

All instructions are on the site it is much easier to edit and format compared to thingiverse. Have a look at other peoples builds for table ideas. Just shoot for 4" thick all the rest isn't a big deal for cut through work.

Yup all the weight is on the steppers but I can be changed with a revised motor bracket an bearing if anyone sees an issue. So far so good.

thank you! I will see which one I want to build, this one of your "Mostly Printed CNC 525". I think the CNC 525 is a little bit more mature then your low rider. The low rider is brand new but so simple...

thanks again for your hard work!

So great to see that you're still on the grind, staying on top in the open-source community.

To be honest, I got a little nervous with all the jack asses cloning/selling the MPCNC in foreign markets. I thought to myself, "damn, I bet he's just going to count his losses and keep his designs to himself for now on"..... You had every legitimate reason to do so IMO.

But thankfully, I was wrong, this thing is awesome, I can't wait to build it. Thank you.

It would be helpful to use the term 'open content' instead of 'open source', particularly to avoid the complaints about keeping the design files secret. It sounds like a nit pick I know, but open source means specifically that the design is open, as opposed to the end result being freely available. Think of it as the difference between GPL software and freeware binaries.

There's nothing wrong with this release methodology at all, but you will invite criticism by calling it something it's not.

Considering you're the only one complaining, I'll just keep doing what I do. Perhaps you can start a petition on change.org if you'd like to stipulate specific meaning in regards to each industry.

After all, I've only been doing this, well, my entire life, and this is the first time I've witnessed sour grapes over something like this. Did you try obtaining the CAD files or something? Just a guess. Apologies if I'm going down the wrong path here but I'm awfully confused that you actually took time out of your day to write that comment.

For me, I am more than appreciative of @Allted's willingness to share this design with the community. I'm sorry if you could not obtain the CAD files, or whatever. But you've got to remember, designers have all the rights in the world to keep their designs solely to themselves and make cash instead. People are allowed to do that.

Also, A lot of people keep their source files guarded and off the web due to the sloppy global trademark laws. You better believe China spends a LOT of time on sites like this, just waiting for the next "nice guy" to come along and blindly share the CAD/source files. Then there's also the beginners who like to take open source designs of CNC's and 3D printer, change the filament color and put their name on it. It happens a lot to the CoreXY collective, but they don't seem to mind too much.

You're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

Again, I have zero problem with Allted or his distribution model. I even donated money to him to support what he's doing a couple months back. He created this and has every right to choose how he distributes it. I have yet to hear him call it 'open source', probably because he understands the difference and doesn't want to use an incorrect term.

You fundamentally misunderstand the meaning of 'open source'. It's 'free' as in speech, not 'free' as in beer. The complaint about Chinese engineers sharing the CAD/source files is entirely the point of open source. The idea is that anyone, anywhere, can use, distribute, and change an open source product (with the various licenses dictating how you're allowed to distribute your change). Allted has released a 'free as in beer' product. It's an excellent offering and a gift to the community. It is not, however, 'open source'.

And since you're obviously too lazy to do any sort or research (or any other form of cognitive process), here's the definition you get from "define open source" typed into google:
denoting software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified.

Alright, come on, points have been made. Lets not do this here please.

Alright, I'll back down.

Just to be clear (if I haven't been already) I don't consider the fact that you're not releasing CAD files to be a reduction of the value of your contributions in any way. You've discussed your reasoning before, and I think it's perfectly valid.

As a developer who works on both open source and closed source products, I feel the difference in definition shouldn't be muddied. In the hardware world this might sound nit-picky (or not? I really wouldn't know), but in the software world many battles have been fought over the meaning of 'open source' (and, to a lesser extend, 'open content'). Since you released this under an 'open content' license (CC-NC-SA), you're not misrepresenting your product at all.

Hi Allted, thank you for your work!
As you look to use in your CNC projects rotary optical encoders for improved accuracy and speed of movement in the work area?
In the Ramps it is possible to connect optical encoders.
In my MPCNC aggressive movement axes occur in the gaps of the steps, that I need to slow down processing.
If you use encoders on the axes, it is possible to increase the reliability of the CNC.
Like this - http://www.ia.omron.com/products/family/487/dimension.html
What do you think about this?

If you are skipping steps you must slow down, even if you used optical encoders it means you are trying to move a lot of mass too fast. It is hard on the machine. Physics of the system dictates the speed, this is a big system never built for speed.

Simple, cheap solution is just to slow down. If you need an idea of how fast we move come on over to the forums or watch my vids there are feeds and speeds everywhere.

Optical encoders are nice, but very expensive. They would make things very nice for reliabuility but the truth is is you are skipping steps you are doing something wrong.

It occurs to me that the distance needed is in line with the sections of steel bars you can find in hardware stores.. If you were willing to switch to square shaped extrusions, you could use these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-in-x-72-in-Square-Tube-0-0625-in-Thick-801127/204325635

It'd be a pain in terms of redesign, but could cut down on the overall cost and be closer to the goal of having all the non-printed/cnc'd parts be available at your local hardware store.

Lots of reasons I choose not to use square tubing, but if you want it there is another machine out there that does.

I cant help but think this design is the solution to a cheap farmbot build. Thanks Allted for this and the MPCNC designs. I just completed my MPCNC, Lowrider, but as a Farmbot maybe next i think.

To make this a farmbot, maybe just convert the Y steppers to direct drive a wheel instead of a belt and you could easily use it for very very large things.

The only issue there will be if the wheel spins without moving the axis though, which will end up losing its place. I think leaving on a belt will be fine, I will just need to raise the gantry.

RYAN!
This is AMAZING! Can't wait to build this next!!!!!

Thanks.

I've been slow on the release but it's almost there.

I know this is a long shot request, but it would be incredible to include a dxf for a light weight torsion box for the base.maybe interlocking sections in 1/2" plywood with sections cut out internal to route wires and reduce weight?

There are no internal wires.

Interlocking parts are not my cup of tea. It only works well with one thickness, so it might work with one stores plywood but not with another. Have a look at the website in the forums, I just used 2x4's and cheap sheet wood. Nothing special about the table, relatively flat and appox 4 thickness on the edges for the wheels. Any flatness variations are handled by cutting all the way through, I have Styrofoam as my spoil board, if you need critical z dimensions, spend more time building a nice flat table.

Allted, thank you for working on this. Ever since I saw Printerbot work on their prototype I changed my perspective on how I would create a full sheet CNC. I'm in no position to work on this now as I have the MPCNC parts nearly printed but I wanted to pass on an some ideas to the community.
1) Use aluminum levels at your local box store like this as the primary support across the sheet to improve accuracy and stiffness.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Empire-72-in-Box-Level-E75-72/207024931
They are expensive and extrusion may be cheaper anyway but if I came across a level for free... I don't like this idea too much because of the effort to encapsulate the level with bearings. :/
2) I haven't seen it yet but perhaps someone has used JB Weld to bond conduit and a flat metal brace where the bearings don' touch. This idea relates to the MPCNC because there are openings I see available. Your center assembly bearings would need to be raised.

And a final note, I personally would like to see how you built your torsion table. I've seen videos on this but perhaps you have some clever tips, can show your inner fins, etc.

Great job and we are all following and supporting you!

Thanks for the tips, and the compliments.

You can see more detail in the forums on the site, lowrider and the end of the version 2 thread. I will be putting up more details on all of this hopefully this weekend. Just takes time.

Looks really good. Good enough that I'll probably cannibalize my MPCNC to make this in a few months once the parts are finalized.

Guess I should start now on making a torsion table..

Thanks!

I'll try and get some more parts up today, to get the early adopters roller.

Awesome project, Ryan.
Built an MPCNC and in the process of an MP3DP now. Probably going to build another MPCNC at some point.
Both projects lots of fun to build and mess with, and I'll start setting the money aside for the parts for this guy.

Thanks for all you do.

Awesome, thanks!

To compensate for the flexing caused by the weight of the spindle, one could determine that flexing once and compensate that on the gcode level, if necessary. Might save some spoil boards. Or, as I mentioned somewhere else already, use a laser pointer as a reference and correct Z.
That's how HP allegedly made their later mechanical plotters precise build a sloggy hadware and hire some rock solid creative heads.

There are many ways to scan a kid.

Lets hold off on saying there is an issue until someone actually finds one. It cut perfectly for me.

Z accuracy is not really the priority with this kind of machine. If you need better than whatever this already has you can also improve accuracy by simply slowing down.

You need to do some calculations before wasting any more time and money. This thing will have the z stiffness of soggy noddle. :) It needs a real gantry to support the router weight and cutting forces.

You need to come up with a design of your own before anyone here takes your criticism seriously. Because right now, after looking at your page, it seems like you're just pissed off because you can't figure out proper assembly.

Everyone here and in the forums has got this beast rocking and rolling, cutting through all kinds of material with no problem. Maybe try building it again, this time paying attention to what you're doing.

It uses two 1" stainless steel tubes for that span, doubt it's going to budge vertically enough to matter. I could see it flexing if he was using conduit, but that's not the case. The purpose of this is to get a full sheet cnc machine at low cost.

single 304 stainless steel tube 48"{L} x 1"{od} x 0.065"{c};
tensile strength = 85k;
yield strength = 35k;
center load = 3lbs;
both ends = fixed;
= 0.1507" max deflection (if load is in center).
this deflection would be ok in a lot of cases, but obviously not if you need better vertical accuracy... it's not going to be jumping/wobbling vertically at this deflection rate as that would require the vertical force to vary up to this 3lbs of force during cutting, as long as the cuts aren't too aggressive it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

simply stating this thing won't work cause he didn't run calculations on off-center loaded beams doesn't help, do you have any suggestions on how it could be improved without exploding the cost?
ie. adding another two tubes above the current ones, or switching to square tubing or I beam?

*he's also obviously done a few cuts w/o issue, and it looks like it'd mostly be used for through cuts anyway, where this deflection wouldn't even matter.

Can you clarify what you mean? The Z is stiff as hell (it is only 3" in this video it only moves from .25" to about 1") so is the Y (it is a table), the X is a little wobbly but for some reason it cuts amazingly well.

The one job that was shown in that video payed back what it cost me to make.

You didn't spend any time or any money. So unless you have a useful comment....

this is basic engineering, please go read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflection_(engineering)#Center-loaded_simple_beams

the vertical position of the end of the cutter will depend on where it is side to side as the rods flex as they have very little moment of inertia. (both vertically and horizontally although most of the loads are vertical) The design is fine for what it is but will work better if you build a gantry beam with actual stiffness. (a couple 40mmx80mm extrusions perhaps) or if you want to go cheap a plywood box section beam will help considerably.

for f#cks sake it is you I am trying to help. so if you don't have a useful design ....

You can always make something better. This accomplishes exactly what it was designed for. Cutting out pieces in a full sheet of wood. Z tolerances mean very little when you are cutting all the way through with minimal cost.
The crawlbot is made exactly how you suggested, it looks amazing. Why would I rebuild their design?

I do appreciate the input.

I can make a CNC out of soggy noodles, and it will cut as well as the one in this video!?!

I'm gunna make some noodles right now boy i'll be pissed if I spent 3 weeks designing this thing and the whole time I just needed overcooked noodles...

LMAO! The best part about these low life leeching trolls is when you go to their page and see a big, fat ZERO in the box that says "designs".

It's always the ones who can't even follow LEGO instructions. Acting like it's your fault they are stupid.

Thanks for putting this out there!

High Five!

Slowly but surely, there is a bunch of information that I have to provide still but hopefully it all goes smoothly.

Please release a metric version from this beast :)

Slow your roll, I have to get this one released first, and of course it works with metric hardware.

This is just for 25.4mm OD rails, a 25mm version might follow.

Ryan, glad to have someone like you still creating amazing open source design. There is so much of the same out there that this is absolutely refreshing.

Thank you for saying that.

I like designing and trouble shooting things.

Heh, my wife just commented about an hour ago that I wasn't printing anything..... ;-)

What the heck man?!! This thing is incredible. Is there a certain thickness needed for the 4x8 material or are the wheels on the rails adjustable to suit multiple thickness of material? I love this idea!

IKR, awesome job he did, btw Hows it going danzca

The table is bigger than the material, adjustable just in case. So I think 8" extra on the short side and 12" extra on the long side. exact dimension are on the site I think.

The table should be close to 4" thick for the adjustable wheels.

Thanks, hope it works for everyone.

This is awesome, have you done any routing yet?

Yup, so far so good. Cut out a full set of MP3DP parts out of HDPE, a few days ago, and have done a bunch of test cuts in other materials.

I have some video of it but it's pretty boring. You can't see the actual bit while its working. I'll try and upload it in a bit for proof I guess.

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