B2D Extruder - Strong and Silent Bowden Extruder

by yyh1002 May 2, 2017
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Hey, will this work for other printers like Tevo tornado and similar? If so, is there a bracket included to mount it?

I am making your Extruder but having a time finding the parts... Any chance you have a list of links were to find all of this stuff?


What is the reason that for different filament you use differential bowden tube? Why not just use OD 6.35 for all, for example (for 1.75 and 2.85 at least)?
Thank you.

Hi. Because the size of bowden tube often depends on the hotend. The several options is to accommodate different hotends.

Did you modify the firmware to get this working?

You need to adjust E_axis steps/mm. It can be done with Gcode.

Hi there,
I was wondering why there are no holes for the screws in the "Bearing connector" part, which hold the bearings. See attached image.
It's a 1 min job to add the holes in SolidWorks manually, that's not really the issue, I am just wondering if this was on purpose, or if it's a mistake.

  • Edit: Nevermind, I figured they are just small "brims" so parts can be printed without support. Right?

It was closed on purpose to avoid support. But there are better ways to do this. I didn't know the "hole bridging" technique back then.

Just printed and put the thing together, but it kind of pulls the filament instead of pushing it. Is there something I should change in the settings. I'm on ultimaker 2 extended.

You need to invert the motor by either modify the firmware or swap the wires.

Aye, dude, thank you, just wanted to make sure before I actually start messing with the hardware. All good from now on

I really like the design and I'm looking forward to setting mine up this weekend. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the e-step calculation in the images. What is the "micro_stepping" parameter? I see that it is 16 in the example but I don't understand why it is 16, what does that parameter describe? thanks in advance

It's related to the stepper driver. It's normally set by wiring or firmware. My example is UM2 board with A4988, and the E stepper driver has pre-configured 1/16 micro stepping.

B2D remix for printing difficult materials

Thanks for this superb design. You must have put a lot of development time into it. Kudos!
I have printed all the parts in PLA and am now waiting for the hardware stuff to arrive. My tronxy X3 badly needs more grunt from the feeder. I'm sick of it skipping! Mostly it's the motor losing sync steps, but occasionally the roller slips on the filament. I can increase the roller tension, but that just makes the stepper skip even more grrrr. I've maxed out the stepper drive current adjustment too. This superb gadget should allow me to reduce the stepper drive back to nominal settings I would imagine.

Just one query, would it not have been better to use the typical concave edged idler pinch wheels instead of the flat edged ball bearing as is now? I would have thought that would have given better filament path alignment with less filament squashing? Though what do I know, I've not even tried it yet ;-).

I accidentally removed 'flashing' from the top plate bearing holes. I now realise this wasn't flashing, but was the thin bearing seating flange Doh! So I may have to repeat that print and go easy on the post print work!
Can't wait to get it built and tested! Thanks again. Peter.

You are welcome:)
The main reason of using standard bearing is that grooved ones are not easy to source when I made the extruder in Europe. And they are also usually larger. But it should only require minimal tweeking to swap with grooved ones instead.

Well it works great! Fixed my X3 extruder skipping and slipping. I turned the E stepper drive way down so that it will stall to limit the torque in a overload blockage or filament reel jam etc. Thus far I see no need to find the grooved bearings, though if I saw some somewhere that would fit I might try them for some theoretical improvement. I sent a small token tip too. Thanks again. Very pleased with the outcome. It is operating as I type this on veronoi style arty objects with millions of retracts. Working great. Fits on X3 printer perfectly in place of original simple extruder drive.. See pics in The makes section.

PS I drilled out The inlet and outlet guides to 4mm and put some PTFE tube right through almost touching the wheels so as to provide best friction free filament guides. Just a small improvement I think. I may do The same with the centre guide between the pinch rollers.

Thanks for the tip! I'm glad it's working well. It is indeed much better with a PTFE liner.

Really like this design. I think it's better than my UM2+ Extruder.

But my belt on the above is a little bit loose and even slip. I used PLA but the frame top shrink a little bit (~0.4mm) as it has 100% infill. I tried to scale up the frame on the top to 101%, then no more slip but still not very stable with big extrude rate. will try to scale up the frame middle later.

I have another issue that the extruder makes sound like 'tatatata' and it seems to be proportional to the rotate of driven gears. It's not very loud and should not come from the motor but from the extruder. Any idea about the reason?


不客气:)。It's quite important to scale up the model to compensate for shrinkage. But 0.4mm for PLA seems like a lot.
Filament scratching holes sometimes make noise, and it can be removed by drilling holes for more smooth finish. But I'm not sure if it's your case. Noise might also be caused by bad bearings.

Thanks for your reply!

My bearings are really bad and I'm now waiting for new ones. I think that the scratching holes are most likely to make this noise. I have another problem that the extrusion is not very stable with higher extrusion rate. The test block in the picture was printed with 0.2mm layer height, 0.4mm line width and 60mm/s speed. With 0.1mm layer height it's much better. Do you have any advice about the problem?

By the way, after several extruder calibration tests I have an average estep of 259.044, match quit well with the example you give.

Layer expansion problem can either be caused by buildplate up/down movement or extrusion inconsistency. If it was caused by extrusion, off center drive gear or pulley might be the issue.

Thanks for your advice. After changing my bearings the result seems much better!

Hi nice design but I have problem with fit metal pulley to printed pylley because in my pulley between screws is bigger angle. Not 90 degrees

That’s unfortunate. There was another guy had this issue with 100 degree pulley. You can probablly get away with one screw, or you could use cad software to adjust the step file to your angle.

Thank you for fast reply. I would be grateful if you would add pulley step file to thing files.

It should be already included in the complete step files.

Sorry I haven't noticed. Thank you very much :)

Does anybody know where to buy these compression springs? Can't find any springs that are 16mm long and strong enough. :( At the moment I am using some "16mm heat bed springs" but even if I screw the nut the whole in, my filament sometimes is not beeing grabed. :( I can hold the filament with my hand and the gears are grinding...

Will these springs fit?


If it's 1.2x9.4x16 or 1.2x9.4x15, which is UM2 bed spring, it should work well. Slightly longer ones should also work if you can find them.


can you upload where a picture is shown with E3D Hobb gears built in?


I'm no longer using E3D gears because it builds up tiny pieces of scratched filament on teeth. I've been using this one and it works flawlessly:
It's basically replacing the 12OD gear with smaller gear. The other stuff looks the same.

I've tried the same kind of gears as in your link and I cannot make them work properly. The setup does not grip the filament very well, even if I increase drastically the spring tension (to a point where it is almost impossible to push the bearing system by hand). I've much much better result with the basic 12 OD gears. Am I missing something there? (the mk8 gears do look very good and of good quality, their size is exactly the same as in your link).

You can check if the two gears have the same effective diameter. I remember I modified the insert and exit a bit for them to move more to the left because the diameter is too small. The mk8 gears should have much more torque than 12OD, which is also my experience.

I just had my first issue with this feeder ever since I first made it.
It snapped and broke when trying to pull out the filament.

Here is a remix for the part:

B2D Frame_Middle_v2 (stronger)
by 3dyuval

wouldn't it be better to have the filament gears on different sides of the Filament since then the Gears have "fresh" filament to grab to ?

I thought about it earlier. There are two reasons that I didn’t do it that way. 1. With this set up, the limitation is already motor torque. The gears has no problem grabing the filament. 2. To achieve drive gears on both sides and gear ratio, it is very unlikely to design it well with standard components.

Hi, first of all, I am really impressed by the thorough design, nice work!

I am having an issue with the dimensions, though. I ordered and received the BOM materials as a bundle from Aliexpress and all looks good.

The problem is that every single part I printed is very tight: the shafts won't go through the holes, the filament insert/bowden outlet and GT2 pulleys won't fit to the top plate, etc.

At first I thought that the problem was that I printed them all in ABS and, having seen your comments about ABS shrinking, I also tried printing them in PLA. All PLA parts came out at exactly the same dimensions as the ABS parts, with exactly the same fitting problems. After that I tried printing just the 48-tooth pulley (in order to save time) at 100.3% x/y scale, according to your instructions - same problem. I then printed it at 101% scale - same problem. Only at 102% does it start to fit the shaft (almost) and the 20 tooth pulley.

Am I doing something wrong? It really makes me wonder, since I never had dimension issues in the past and I have printed quite a few delicate parts for my printer.

Never mind, I was over-extruding. I tuned my current extruder and the results are amazing, a perfect fit for everything!

Glad you sort it out all by yourself. Over extrusion does cause this sort of problem. Inconsistent layer finish also throw off tolerance quite a bit. If it was ABS, the pockets can be easily enlarged with a Torx screw driver.

OK, I just installed the extruder and I am printing the first tests after calibration. Performance looks good, but the retraction sound is very annoying. I am coming from a really silent setup, with TMC2208 stepper drivers, silent fans, Igus bushings, etc. Up until now, I could never hear my previous extruder whatsoever.
With B2D, on each retraction there is a loud rubbery sound, which is amplified by my custom made IKEA lack enclosure and ends up being very annoying.
Any ideas in order to make it totally silent (as advertised)? Or maybe I am doing something wrong?

It is sometimes caused by filament with teeth mark scratching the holes. Try use a screw driver or 3mm drill bit to expand the holes a bit, especially the hole on bearing holder and filament insert. And make sure to align the insert with the filament path.

Filament alignment is not an issue and I think that the filament holes were printed perfectly, so there shouldn't be any resistance there. The sound is mainly due to vibration, since it becomes much more mild (almost silent, but not like my previous setup), when I slightly lift that side of the printer with my hand while printing. I know this should be a dampening issue, but I never had this problem with my previous (stock) extruder.

What’s your retraction speed? I guess there was no gear ratio with your stock extruder. The gear ratio makes motor spin much faster hence more vibration. But I ran 2208 on stealthchop and I don’t have any noise with retraction. Try reduce the retraction speed. You could also add silicone or motor damper to separate the vibration.

What is the proposed retraction speed for good results? Up until now I have always been printing with speed between 55 and 60mm/s, which is quite fast but it was the manufacturer's proposed speed (Anycubic, I have the I3 Mega).

For reference, Ultimaker’s default retraction speed is 25mm/s with 6.5mm distance. When I was using A4988, I reduced it to 18mm/s for silent operation with no artefacts. I changed it back to 25 after using 2208. But how slow retraction can go depends on hotend and filament.

Hmmm, I have been using 5.4mm@60mm/s lately and all was good. I am currently printing a test at 25mm/s as you proposed, and it is doing OK so far, but it increases the print time quite a bit. Anyway, I already minimised the rubbery sound by adding dampers under the printer feet; I should have done this some time ago :-)

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Hi all, I'm having some issues with my settings on Simplify3D to get these parts to print out, mostly with the pulley. I had one print half ok lol. One side of the pulley was perfect, the other was total crap! Can any of you post the settings you used for the pulley, and also separately what you used for the other parts? I have an E3D V6 and a Titan clone. Thanks!

Very cool extruder but in my specimen filament insert very loud squeaks while retraction. Can i do something with this?

It is sometimes caused by filament with teeth mark scratching the holes. Try use a screw driver or 3mm drill bit to expand the holes a bit, especially the hole on bearing holder. And make sure to align the insert with the filament path.

Does anyone know the gcode you need to input into cura to settings in order to adjust for a new extruder? I have a cr10. I know the command code is M92 gcode, but I don't know the calculation or formula to change the actual step number.

Check out this tutorial by Tom Sanladerer for the gcode. I added an image for the calculation formula.

The Extruder looks great and desig is amazing!!. But once installed on my ultimaker2 aluminum clone, I was not able to set correctly the steps for the extruder and the impressions are not good. many lines come out as if it were extruded more than normal and if I down the steps numbers it does not fill well between walls.
If someone can help me??

Try verify your calculation of esteps. And you can also refer to tutotials on how to calibrate esteps with gcode extrusion.

I would like to print with TPU and this bowden seems to be the thing I'm lookin for.
Did you ever try to print TPU with this bowden ?

I printed some TPU with it. You need the hobbed gears and modify with PTFE liner to make sure the filament doesn't pop out.

Hi ! Amazing disign here ! Does it work with ninja flex ?

Ninjaflex has 85A shore hardness which is probably too soft for bowden. I printed some TPU with it. You need the hobbed gears and modify with PTFE liner to make sure the filament doesn't pop out.

Hi! That's one crazy extruder you've designed here. Currently I'm building a high speed 3D printer and things go rather well. I'd love to use this extruder for my design, saves me some work to design my own. The printer will have some interesting features, and I do intend to sell it eventually.
I wonder if you allow your design to be used commercially, and if so, whether it requires a license.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

Finished mine today, enjoyed the print and build process. Very well designed, all parts fitted together perfectly. I bought a fittings kit from Alibaba for $15usd as per the link in this thread. The only mod I had to do was to reverse the extruder direction and re-tune my steps per. I'll post a photo later.

Glad you liked it. Thanks for the tip!

Does anyone know the modifications necessary to make this mountable to a 2020 profile? I don't have an Ultimaker(I have a Tronxy X5S) but I really want to use this extruder.

Made a mount for my Anet AM8: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3083882

B2D extruder mount for 2020 extrusions

Since four of five fixing bolts on the base plate connect to the face plate of NEMA 17 motor, I think you could first mount a NEMA 17 motor on a 2020 profile and then attach the extruder onto it. I guess if you fix the motor firmly enough the topmost fixing bolt could be omitted.

Examples of NEMA 17 mount designs for 2020 profiles:

I don't know how structurally sound it would be, though.

2020 Extruder Motor Mount (for E3D Titan)
by thnikk
NEMA 17 Stepper Motor Mount for V-Slot 2020
Kossel 2020 Extruder motor mount
by KDan

Looking forward to get to of those running on my UM2+ Mark2.

Anyone has set the esteps already for this on a UM2 running thinkergnome?

I used it for Mark2 as well. I set 254 for the esteps.

Awsome. stock 2.85mm?

12mm OD gear with 1.75 filament. But filament diameter shouldn't affect estep.

Got it. Thank you again

This looks amazing, does anyone know if itd be possible to make it compatible with a da vinci machine abd how much work thatd would need, as my filament feeding system on my DV pro Jr is dead

How tight must the 20t pulley fit in the printed one? If I print the 48 teeth pulley in 0.2mm layer high it fits tight into the 15.9mm hole but if I print it in 0.1mm the hole is 16.1mm in diameter. Will this cause any problems?

As long as you can push it in and it doesn't wobble it should be fine.

Hi does anbody have aliexpress or banggood links for BOM?

Search the name on Aliexpress and you will find something.

Thanks for the quick reply. I did before I've post here but it says "Sorry, your search ' b2d extruder ' did not match any products. A partial match of your keywords is listed below." when I just search for b2d "I find God fly card B2D door closer American UL certification manufacturers direct sales". Did you find it? Can you send me a link?

Search for belted extruder instead. But I haven't bought from any of them.


Got my set a few days ago and the quality is very bad! The 605ZZ bearings are shaking and the 5x45/30 cylinder pins are only 4,5mm in diameter and shaped like an egg! So my gear drives are moving sidewards and sometimes the extruder is skipping steps!

Will try to get some higher quality bearings ans cylinder pins. The set is not worth the money!


Is it working?

Hi, yyh1002, very well design!!! Could you please send the Ultimaker 2 Bed Compression Spring 7x9.4x1.2 16mm link to me? I couldn’t find it online. I’ll appreciate it.

Hi. I'm not sure about your region. Just search for Ultimaker 2 bed spring on Aliexpress or eBay. It is sometimes marked as 1.2x15mm.

You're right, I found it on eBay marked as 15mm. Thanks.

This is a fantastic design. I made some edits to the bearingpusher to beef it up a bit, but other than that I'm super impressed I didn't have to touch any of the designs to get them to print and assemble perfectly.

I just wanted to share an easier way if anyone doesn't want to mess with the firmware on this. I use Simplify3D, though this will also work on Cura or Slic3r for sure, and I modify the filament diameter to ~1.00 mm based on a 100% infill calibration cube (also taking into account a different drive gear, my new gear ratio compared to stock is usually between 1:3 and 1:4.5). I use PLA for this, and depending on the color/additives, a 3x20x20 (HxWxL) mm cube, the weight is usually around 1.25-1.35 g. I print a cube before any modification to the feeder, then do some maths to calculate the "fudged" cross-sectional area of the filament to adjust to the new feeding ratio. Also, if done this way, you will want to increase the retraction amount by 3x. So if you retract 3.2 mm, you will want to retract 9.6 mm with the new gearing ratio.

I've printed a bunch of these for our printers at work after seeing the results on my printers at home, and they've instantly turned some struggling old printers going at 1200mm/min back up to 4500-6000mm/min as they were new with plenty of room to go faster yet. IMO this is even better than a e3d titan if you have the room to incorporate it (just replaced a couple titans with this with no regrets).

As long as the printer is using marlin firmware, it is more straight forward to send M92 gcode commands to change E motor estep and it's quite easy. But thanks for sharing the filament diameter method. Happy to hear your comparison with Titan :)

About half of the printers I use do not use Marlin firmware, which is why I chose this workaround.This is a straightforward one to use no matter what printer you use! Thanks for your time in making this design!

You're welcome.

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first of all, it looks impressive!!
I hope this question was not asked before...do you think it will be possible to use an UM2 stepper (400steps, 0,9deg, Nema 17)?
If yes, should i just double the esteps, from 254 to 508?

Many thanks in advance and well done!


Hi Emanuele,
Thanks. You are correct. Theoretically, I think 508 esteps would work for UM2 feeder motor. But how it actually perform would need test. Calibrating the esteps with extruding PLA would be better. The effective diameter is usually a bit different from mechanical diameter.

Awesome. I've been looking for a way to improve my ultimaker-clone extruder.
Thanks for all the work you've put in this. I'll start gathering parts.

This just shows how overpriced bondtech extruders are.

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well done. this will turn my crappy tronxy extruder into a beast. I love it. can't wait to print like a BOSS!!!

Good luck!

I haven't printed this yet, but it's on my list.
I just wanted to say this is one of the most ingenious designs I have seen thus far for a 3D printer.
Very well done.

Thanks for the compliment :)

I finally got the parts in and I printed and assembled this over the last couple of days.
I commissioned it, just tonight.

I had to change a couple of things via the CAD files you posted, to suit my needs, but the overall design is flawless and has upped the quality that my printer puts out by leaps and bounds.

Again, very well done, sir. Thank you for posting this!

Thanks for putting this up, I was just wondering what specific material you've used in the photos and how you've finished it? The subsurface light scattering qualities of it are sublime!

It's a Chinese brand general PLA printed on BuildTak sheet, so it has a nice matte finish.

It's worth to print in nylon? Specifically I have the Taulman Bridge.
Eventually have you some advice?
Thank you

Hi. I don't know about Taulman Bridge, but Nylon generally does not have enough stiffness for this application.
The top and base plate specifically need hard material.

Hi friend.
I want to ask what filaments you used for printing?
Thank you

It was printed in general PLA for convenience. It would be better to print with any other higher temp material.

for abs it is necessary to make clearances for shrinkage.

I designed the dimension for PLA as it's much more accurate. With ABS the shrinkage varies a a lot between different filaments and print temperature.
I made one using Up ABS with 100.3% scale on X and Y direction and I could achieve the same dimensions as my PLA print.

ok I will do.
I am waiting for the package with aliexpress. I want to ask the right choice for me

I guess denser teeth might be better, such as 38 or 40. the one in your link is a motion gear for Titan extruder, not meant for gripping filament.

I made one, it really is a great design, but my print size may be a bit small, resulting in the standard 130mm65 tooth belt is still very loose, if there is tightening place even better! At present, the belt can only be tightened by screws

If you printed with high temp filament such as ABS, you need to scale up XY a bit to compensate for shrinkage.
PLA should have proper tension for belts.

there is, the plate can slide a bit so when you mount your extruder , you can tight it

Amazing extruder design!

Would you be able to share the updated v3.1 step files please? I will be making one of these for my printer as after days of searching your design seems like one of the best available.


Step file uploaded :)

This is fantastic design
I started assemble and ran into a problem:
My 130mm belt doesn't seem to fit, it's loose.
Please look at the pics:

Hi. Try count the number of teeth on your belt. It's very likely that you have a faulty belt with more than 65 teeth.

The thing is, My inner diameter is ~130mm.
I don't see how changing the number of teeth will change the so drastically

It's not about inner diameter. The thing with GT2 belt is that each tooth has a pitch of 2mm.
So 130mm GT2 belt absolutely has 65 teeth. 70 teeth belt has a pitch length of 140mm.

Okay! I got the belts by mail and I'm ready to roll... Almost everything is tight!
One question: It seems that the belt on the printed pulley is not so tight.
I realize moving the entire case up a bit will stretch it a bit , but It is up as it can get.
One thing to note, I'm still waiting on the 16T pulley to arrive by mail. I'm using 18T instead.
I don't think this should cause the loose belt tough,thoughts?
Other than that, great design!

Strange. 18T pulley has larger diameter, it should make the belt tighter. What’s the file name of the base plate you printed?

I printed the V2 version of the backplate

As you can see from this video https://youtu.be/t5I7tI2yNrE
The belt is a little loose
And also you can hear that it's quite far from being silent.
What are the settings you used for the speed and acceleration of retraction?

The case allow for +-1mm of movement. I couldn't see clearly but it seems that it didn't reach the limit. Maybe you could try pulling the extruder up hard while tightening the case bolts. You could also try the v3.1 base plate, it's stronger than v2.
I used 25mm/s retraction in the video, with 254 esteps for the 1.8 degree motor. For UM2+, the noise mainly come from motor vibrating frame. But the noise frequency seems really high in your case, I'm not sure why. Because with 12mm drive gear, the motor should run quite slowly with much less vibration.

Huh. Thanks for the input.
Maybe I should print the V3.1 with a slight adjustment for these circumstances.
This feeder is working extremely well though!


hello. can you send me solidworks or another firm file? i try change. my email bangsin8@korea.com

Very well done... Always happy to see new design popping around.
About pulling force benchmark, I remember this excellent article (even before Titan and Bontech Aero were a thing):

Thanks for the share mate. I was looking at another great article before shopping for drive gears:

Great, also be sure to read this another one (where one of my design, Saintflint, is actually ranking quite well):

Will do. Cheers.

What is the push force with 1.75mm ?

I haven't tested the force specifically. It works flawlessly for general speed at 0.4 nozzle and 0.2 layer height so far, no jam or skip whatsoever.
But there are so many variables affecting the max push force before filament slipping or motor skipping. From what I can tell, the belts will not slip or skip at all. The key factors are profile of drive gear and torque of stepper motor. You can try different drive gear for optimised performance.

An extruder is designed to push a filament and to be able to compare different extruders, this must be measured and published. Just specify the kind of filament as it is the only external variable. Adjustment of the spring and current are specific to the extruder, just adjust for the max and give the values.
What is the point of building a complex extruder if there is no or marginal gain ?

As you are saying testing push force is so important, can you maybe share a link of the standard testing method? Is there a comparision of push force of different extruders anywhere?

This is the fisrt time I hear "filament push force" as a extruder benchmark TBH. I don't remember seeing a push force for Bond tech and E3D Titan.

You push the filament yes ? Now, difficult to measure ? Then measure the pull. The guys who designed the Titan measured it, they are real engineers. When you design something you compute, you measure, standard engineering procedures. I have seen figures, even in Tom's video when he compared a regular extruder to one with two coupled hobbed gears .

Ok, dude. I recorded the filament pull test with current drive gears: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ySoZrtW2U
Also have a pair of e3d hob goblin gears on the way. Expecting how those perform.
Any comments?

is it possible to use MK8 Direct drive gear for 1.75 filament?
Thank you.

P.S.I really like your design!

Thanks. Technically it works. But I woudn’t recommend it. According to my experience, deep curled teeth scratch filament, and create chips of plastic around the gear.

Ok quite strong., At around 6.5kg, is it the stepper that fails ?

Actually I was wrong. It was the motor failed. I'll see if I could get better result with the smaller diameter e3d gear.

Ok, it was my impression. When the filament start to strip, usually it stops moving and the gear keeps grinding it.

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What Nema17 do you use and how much is the current ? The e3d hob are well made and should perform better. These Chinese hobbed gear seems regular small module gear..

48mm long with 0.55N.m torque, rated current of 1.5A running at 1.25A

Now you can publish these values. Others should do the same. it is the only way one can compare and choose according to one's need.

I think there might be a problem with testing with max spring compression. The gear is almost never going to grind the filament at max compression because the filament is solidly pressed into the gear and won't "pop". And max compression is not good for real print scenario as the gear will damage the filament so badly with frequent retraction. Therefore in real printing compression, the filament might pop if it reached certain resistance. The force measured with max compression is almost always going to reach the max torque of the motor, which is not that useful for judging extruder.

Yes, Tom mentioned Bondtech having more force than regular one in his video. I don't remember seeing a measurement.