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poulphunter

Bb3 natural trumpet (Trompette Si bémol 3 naturelle) same harmonics as a valve trumpet

by poulphunter Mar 3, 2014
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So I am planning on printing this, and it seems like a good design. I have a Wanhao Duplicator i3 Plus, and I will be printing out most of the parts at once which should take about two days of printing for most parts and another day for the rest of the parts. I don't know whether to print in ABS or PLA because ABS is stronger, but it is much harder to print with, while PLA is easier to print with but uses more material, it is weaker, and it isn't as strong. I tried printing out the straight long bugle that you also posted on Thingiverse, and I originally tried it in ABS but the print kept failing. I then printed in PLA and got it to print but the parts kept snapping, so I don't know. For this, I might try using ABS and put an enclosure around the printer. Another issue I have is that the curved pieces require supports inside on the tubing which makes it difficult to take off the supports. What I might try to do is take the 3d model of the curved pieces and separate each of them into two pieces then connect them together with some sort of adhesive, whether it be hot glue, gorilla glue, heating the parts up then connecting them until they fuse together, or if I am using ABS, acetone them together. What I might also do is get a 0.6mm plated nozzle so I can speed up the time and possible use a 0.4mm layer height to increase the speed even further, cutting the time almost in half. If you have any thoughts on what I should do let me know, or email me at [email protected] Thanks!

  • Even for PLA you can put your printer in a box, this will avoid errors of impressions.
  • The 0.6mm head can be a good idea because the precision is made by the steps of the motors, there is no wall less than 1mm in the parts to be printed therefore it accelerate printing without loss of precision.
  • There is no big difference between PLA and ABS in the sound. The ABS sounds a little better in my opinion. In any case, it is better to fill the objects as much as possible.
  • The "Infill" parameter must be as close as 100%. On many FDM printers, there may be print errors beyond 95% because, by recalibrating them, it is possible to go up to 100%. I think the minimum is 75% of Infill for this instrument.
  • Before printing all parts together, it is better to first test only one part. Then you can see if a piece cause an error. If your printer is not very well calibrated it's better to print only one piece at a time.
  • When you have printed your first piece (you can start with leadpipe : piece_19.stl), you have to test if there are air leaks. If there is, the instrument will not be playable.
    By slightly increasing the print temperature, this can help to prevent leakage, but increases the probability of error, so find the right medium. (Only if you have air leaks).
    To test if there are leaks you can clog one side with your hand and blow hard from the other side. If, under pressure, the air does not move, your printer is well calibrated and instrument will produce sound.
    Otherwise it is possible to varnish the inside to remove the leaks but it is more complicated. I have tested acetone vapor inside the complete instrument with really good results. For mouthpieces I have tested aerosol varnish, epoxy glue.
  • For parts junctions, you can welds them with a glue made of ABS and acetone. Even for welding PLA parts it done good results. Epoxy glue, super glue can work too.
  • Curved pipes are okay with a properly calibrated printer (this can work even without supports). If the printer fails to make the part, even if it is cut in half the inside may not be good. It is better to spend a little time setting up the printer correctly in my opinion. You have to play with the settings of the slicer (I've only tested curved pipes with Slic3r but Cura may work too).
    I think it is better to start with the straight trumpet, it's easier to print.
  • And other thing, the bell is harder to print, so you can print it separately (piece_0.stl).

We (My association and I) are going to make a detailed tutorial for instrument making with 3D printer (but time is missing for all our projects so we have to wait a little before making it). You can check at http://openbrass.org some times if it's made. If you have any question you can contact us here or on our website too.

Sorry for all of these comments, but did you make one of these? and if you did, can you post a video of it playing? because i would really love to print this but i don't know if its worth the time and the filament costs to play. And i am now getting a printer with a 7.8x7.8x7.8 build volume so if it helps you can cut the pieces to that instead of 6x6x6

Nop, but a bass trumpet with a shape similar is in construction.
The filament costs for this model is near 0.36 kg of ABS or 0.43 kg of PLA (printed here www.openbrass.org/page-download.htm), but it consider the volume with support only, not if your 3D printer has errors.
For me I have some errors for the bass trumpet actually but it's just caused by 3D printer who isn't a good printer. I can't print the wistle for exemple (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:403012) and try to fix that actually depending of the time I have. I have to do hardware fix, software fix, slic3r config, etc... It takes more time for me that the printing process...
The printing process will take 7-15 day depending of your 3D printer, some people may print it in near one day (with large bed size 3D printer). After the print step, it will take very few time to assemble pieces. For me with bad 3D printer results, I have to polish pieces after printing to make them really functional.
Some pieces are "hard" to print, because some parts needs to have a more accurate printer.
I will generate pieces for 7.8x7.8x7.8 this week. (maybe it's already ok, I have to check).

Better Whistle

overall, how long do you think this would take to make all of the pieces and assemble them. For that part where the z axis is 8 inches, could you make one thats about 6-7? it would be very helpful.

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Please tell me if you do make a new model because i might be getting a 3D printer very soon and i would really like to make this!

I can do an "on demand" model, based on my Instrument Generator ( specifications are here : http://www.openbrass.org/page-source_code-en.htm ).
The 0.21 version will be validated with a bass trumpet model. I haven't tested it yet cause lots of time to print it with my poor 3D printer but it normally work.
I can do all natural model as trumpet, cornet, flugelhorn, and basses.
I've generated a horn too, but it was not the habitual tuning (it's in Bb).
Theses new model havn't been tested yet but must work.
And it will take near a week to generate an "on demand" model.

when do you think it will be done

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Please tell me if you do make a new model because i might be getting a 3D printer very soon and i would really like to make this!

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are any of the parts over 6x6x6 inches

After checking quickly, it's printable with a 4x4x8 inches (8 inches for Z axis) but not a 6x6x6.
But I can make a model for 6x6x6 if you want it.
There will be more parts.

If you could, i would love it if you could make it 6X6X6

y did you take the videos off

Nope,Thingiverse has truncated any accentuated strings (It was not UTF-8 compatible before).
The video link was on the bottom of the project Description and was truncated with the string on all my projects...
Thanks for information.

For some reason my computer doesnt respond to that application,?

OpenSCAD need some RAM, some GPU ressources so it can be slow with a not healthy computer.

what did you use to design this?
i clicked on that link but it didnt work

do you know how to use google sketchup? if you do can you please tell me how i can export a file i made there to thingiverse

I don't use SketchUp. For 3D printing you may use STL file format :
Easy way : http://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/sketchup_3d_printing_export_to_stl_tutorial
Plugin way to install in SketchUp : http://www.cerebralmeltdown.com/cncstuff/stl/index.htm

so if i printed this in, lets say two weeks, would it be improved enough to work ok?
is the straight trumpet better than this one?

It already play like the model in video.
This is generated on the same model as straight trumpet. The shape must not really change the sound for this version.
It will be updated I think in few month, depending of the validation of Instrument Generator's new version.

when will this be out of "work in progress"

This model was generated with the Instrument Generator v0.1, actually this soft is up to v0.21 (lots of improvements and slides are added). Bass trumpet will be the tested with this version, I hope, in few month.
We (my non-profit organisation OpenBrass and I) have lots of derived project, so we have to wait some time before version 1.0 who can claim to be a study instrument recognised by professional musicians.
For the time I know it can be really improved and we really want to perfect it before saying it work.
Even it can actually play in my case, a minimum documentation for instrument manufacture, about 3D printer is needed to know what is really important.
For example, some people have assembled this piece but no sound can be produce caused by air leaks.
Printing a Yoda head with air leaks doesn't matter but for other application, as a bowl it can be embarrassing. For instrument it's the same and there are lot of other things to study and document as surface roughness, density, type of plastic, thickness, ...
So it's not for today but the progress will be regulary updated.

about how long do you think it would take to print?

It's between 5 to 11h by piece for me.
With my printer I print it in 7-15 days (sometime printing 2 pieces a lucky day and start printing in the morning, check after lunch, stop the afternoon).

The straight trumpet was printed in only one print here : http://news.typeamachines.com/video-3d-printed-trumpet/
also the time is significantly reduced.

So you can try to print lots of pieces and reduce the number if errors with your printer.

is this worth printing?

It's a work "in progress", it's not perfect but i hope next version will be better.
It's calculated to be near a real instrument, not like a simple funnel.

i have from piece 19-5 printed and assembled... there are some air leaks but not unless there is some back pressure. should there be any partials at the point i am at? i am a trumpet player

The pieces fit together in the order of the file name (the piece_0 until piece_19).

The generation is based on an instruments generator. There should be no difference in the sound compared to the video but this model has not been tested, so it will be great if you send me back photos of it.

The updated list of instruments with more informations:
http://www.openbrass.org/page-download.htm

I'm printing it now. Looks great so far!

has anyone played this? im halfway through and partials havent appeared yet...

Halfway is near piece_11. If you print from bell to mouthpiece (piece_0 to piece_11) it may be harder to produce a sound but it is normally possible.
Halfway have this harmonics series : Bb3 F4 Bb4 D5 F5 Ab5 Bb5. I have to check octave name, maybe there is a mistake (French system confusion). Halfway normally start harmonic series one octave higher than a traditional valve trumpet.

It normally sound, but if you have print errors it can cause air leaks.
Can you test to blow some air and block the exit in the same time, if air can pass it's the cause (it can't sound with air leaks).
I'll have a problem like this for my first print and I have corrected it with acetone (cause it was with ABS). For PLA you may have solvent equivalent but it's harder to found than acetone. In fact it's a repair solution, the full time working solution is to correct print errors.

i have from piece 19-5 printed and assembled... there are some air leaks but not unless there is some back pressure. should there be any partials at the point i am at? i am a trumpet player

It normally may produce a harmonic serie at this point, maybe something near : F3 C4 F4 A4 C5 F5... (but not some partials of Bb).
Air leaks can really be the cause even if there is some back pressure. Even if you can maybe play some notes, at the finish point you will have not a good sound. It's like playing with water key open, it can play some notes but lots of them are very bad.

i fixed the air leaks but still no partials..... Im beginning to think this was a waste

I think there must still have air leaks.
For my first 3D printing I really felt that it did not work until I waterproof my tube.
Even the garden hoses can sound! If there are no air leaks there is no reason that it does not produce harmonics.

The solution would be to correct printing problems first.
What printer do you have?
Do you use PLA, ABS filament or other?
Do you Slic3r? Skeinforge? CuraEngine?

could you post a photo with the way the parts fit together?