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Basic Working 12 hole Ocarina (Remix) - Final Notes improved

by Karuuv, published

Basic Working 12 hole Ocarina (Remix) - Final Notes improved by Karuuv Jan 8, 2018

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Summary

EDIT: RobSoundTrack also made a fixed version of the Nimaid Ocarina -
his is available here - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2755765
More EDITs: There's also a lower pitched version of V17 in the works: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2810366

V.6 SoundSample:https://youtu.be/6W6-l9NYwsU
V.10 SoundSample:https://youtu.be/FJdEca6Ykgg
V.17 SoundSample:https://youtu.be/Mz09SC4Y4mc

Version Notes

• V.1: High notes work, but are still airy.
•V.6: Angled mouthpiece and decent high notes. Sound sample included.
•V.10: Voicing wildly beaten to death. Ocarina is now more in tune to C5, but higher notes are still out of tune. Seems quieter. I might be mental.
•V.17: Voicing completely changed again: Tried to more or less recreate the shape on my clay ocarina. I have no idea if I like this one more or not. It is closer to being in tune.

Summary

The original model is amazing, but I had trouble getting the highest notes to play.
After a bit of research (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuYeW_OxEg&t=204s - I decided this was a #3 C Ocarina. May be wrong.), I found that the voicing needed some slight adjustments, so I did a quick and dirty modification to get it working.

Since then, I've kept trying repeatedly to rebuild the voicing to get the high notes to perfection. I'm still not there, but I think it's improved some.
The tuning is also much improved, but I think still a little off on the highest notes.

Originally, I had made the airway exit more narrow. The tighter airstream should assist the reverberation of the instrument.
The labium lip is now further away from the windway exit. This should strengthen the high notes, and make the lowest note harder to blow out with added wind pressure.

In every version I tried to leave the voicing rounded, as I like the softer sound a round airway creates compared to the sharp sound a rectangular one makes. Tried to make the ocarina a bit quiet, but if anything I think I made it louder.

Until I finally printed one in wood - for whatever reason the windway feels smaller (it resists breath a bit more than the regular plastic ones) and in turn appears to have gotten quieter. Perhaps the secret to a quieter instrument this whole time was simply to narrow the windway some more?

Print Settings

Printer Brand:

Robo 3D

Printer:

Rafts:

Yes

Supports:

Yes

Resolution:

.2 MM, Matter Control Medium Settings

Infill:

11%


Notes:

3 Perimeters/Shells.
1.8mm top solid layers.

Higher infill doesn't seem to affect the tone.

These were printed in PLA
The smooth (non-wooden) one was sanded with 80 and then 400 grit sandpaper, then coated with 3 layers of Polycrylic Clear Satin wood finish. Was just curious how that would look, and honestly I think I rather like it.

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Hi,

I have a hard time printing this on my MK3. I use Slic3r Prusa Edition. I use 15 % infill, supports from build plate and a brim for better adhesion. It prints fine until I reach the mouthpiece (or what it's called). At that point the support gets knocked over and the mouthpiece prints mid-air... Other prints worked fine so far. Is it a problem with slic3r or should I change the orientation of the model?

I also had issues with the mouthpiece supports breaking off. If yours were breaking from the bed like mine were, my solution was even more Brim - I kicked it up to 10-12 loops for these - including a picture of my first layer in case Slic3r uses a different way to measure brims than Matter Control, but I imagine it's 4mm of brim in my case.

I've seen some users print it with a slight angle, about 30-45º's. Picture included for reference. I didn't have success with this personally but I think my supports aren't as finely tuned as they should be.

If that doesn't work, maybe decreasing the support print speed might help? I have mine at 50mm/s and... that actually sounds kind of fast to me. Wonder if that's why I couldn't print this in the angled orientation.

As a last resort idea, my wife has saved prints by cutting up some cheap dollar store.... cardboard nail file thingies? And then using those with painters tape to build a sort of "elevated bed" for the supports to attach and start rebuilding from. The rough texture helps lets the plastic grab on pretty well, and it's often been enough to correct the supports and let the print finish.

Hopefully that helps, but if not let me know and we can look at other solutions :)

Thank you for your great answer! These tips help me a lot to understand my problem. I was watching my machine carefully on some testprints and it looks like I need to tune some Slic3r settings. The Printhead moves way too fast away from supports (or small structures). It prints the supports slowly and then rushes away like it's beeing chased. When it does that, it pulls on the fine structures and rips them from the Buildplate.

I've put a Brim of 5 mm around the supports. Even those got ripped away after a some time.

I will try more things over time. Right now it's quite a waste of time and material to print this ocarina over and over again ;).

Anyway, thank you a lot! =)

I don't think I'd have ever suspected the travel speed for this, nice catch :D

Can I shrink this to 92 percent of its size?? I'm using the improve model. I had to shrink it so it fits on my monoprice select mini.

92% should be fine. The high note might be a little harder to play but I'm not positive.

That said, the Monoprice mini is 120mmx120mmx120mm isn't it? What about rotating it 45º so the ends of the ocarina point to the corners of the build plate instead of the sides? or does the wider end of the ocarina still poke off the sides of the plate there?

If that's the right size, I think that might work?

Yea you have the dimensions correct. I wanted to print it vertical so I kept it at 92 percent. It sounds great at 92 percent anyways beside for a few high notes. This is an awesome design!!! Thanks.

Argh, vertical! I've been printing a ton of the soprano ones lately and completely forgot about the different orientation >_< Sorry about that. I'm happy you like the design :)

It's one of my favorites to play, so I had to use it eventually :-D

Absolutely doesnt work for me. Have I done something wrong?

First thing, check for supports inside the model and inside the Voicing Window on the back(Pictured): My slicer often shoves one in there.

If those are both fine, try holding it under water for a bit then playing the lowest note (All fingerholes covered): Does it work? If so, the perimeters might be too thin and allowing air to leak.

Also try to make sure nothing is stuck in the windway - this is unfortunately a bit hard on this model since the windway curves inside the model, but sticking a safety pin in from either end should let you figure out if something is lodged in there. It would also feel really hard to blow breath through if this is the case.

If none of these help, please post pictures of the ocarina if you can.
Also let us know what slicer you used, what version of the slicer, and how the ocarina was oriented on the build plate.

Good luck, I hope one of these steps fixes it! If not we can keep trying to troubleshoot.

I ran it under water and it magically works! Thanks!

If you shake it now, you don't still hear water sloshing in it, right?

if not, I have no idea why that fixed it but I'm really glad it did :-D

Well, now that its dried it has stopped working xD i guess the perimeters are too thin. will try changing some things and printing a new one.

I've been using 3 Perimeters, if that helps.
Good luck, I really hope your next one works perfectly :)

Whats with all the video snapshots?

When you add a youtube video to the description of a thing on thingiverse, it automatically adds the videos to that section. They should be playable videos from there, though, not just images.

Oh I see, sound samples. I liked the video explaining the ocarina in depth, keep up the cool work!

I will try and print your new design. Thank you for updating it again!

Hope it comes out and sounds great for you ^_^

Printed v17 and it sounds great! much better with the high notes!

Great design!! I am using the PRUSA MK2 to print this. Do you have any tips on removing supports from the inside of the ocarina, I cannot find any videos on youtube to show me how to do this. Instead of all on the Prusa slicer, it is called everywhere and that includes the inside of the ocarina.

For MatterControl, you'll want to disable "Support Everywhere"
For Cura, there's an option called "Support Placement" and you want to change that from "Everywhere" to "Touching Build Plate"

For Slic3r I'm less certain: It might be "Don't support bridges". Otherwise, you could try reducing the Overhang Threshhold until it stops generating them inside of the model? Unsure if that'll work, I've never used Slic3r personally, so I'm just guessing a bit from their documentation.

I really love your design. I print every version of yours.
Thank you for your hard work :)

Aww, thank you :)
I'm hoping to make a deeper tuned one as well in the near future.
I have a big airy sounding orange one sitting on my computer tower that's an early beta/proof of concept of it.

For this current version I'm planning to take a small break to actually enjoy it a bit. I'm finally printing a V17 for myself right now - every V17 I've made up to this point I've given away.

Hey man, it's great that you keep working on it! I still have some printing defect to work on with my printer, but for sure I'm printing a bunch of these for me and my friends.

Good luck with your printer! I remember when our RAMPs board power plug melted and our printer was out of commission I was going stir crazy, so I wish you a quick and effective fix :D

I'm still hoping to get this version better (If I can figure out how) and make different additional ocarinas in the future - deeper ones, and maybe different shapes are the current hopes.
_
Edit: Hah, the fan that cools my heatbreak just died - my printers out of commission until I can replace it. I must have jinxed myself with this comment XD

I cant beleive i havent been able to print the v10 to try yettttt. Maybe tomorrow. Is the 11 coming soon should i wait?

Actually on version 16 now, still not good enough to upload. Trying to recreate the voicing on my clay ocarina entirely into the model.

Love this! I printed the 5 hole and want to make one that has more range. I am super excited to print this!!

I hope it prints well for you :-D

V10 is the best sounding yet! (heard the sample)
Keep it up Karuuv!

I just made one- it's amazing! Thanks so much for sharing!

At the low range (A to top D), it's perfectly in tune. I'm sure with a bit more tweaking, i'll be able to sound the top E and the top F.

:D

I'm happy you like it :)
Were the top E and F not working at all, Or are they out of tune? If not at all, which version did you print?

i printed the one you updated in february 2018. the top E and F do work, but they sound like Eb and E respectively.

Thanks for the feedback :) Was really worried the top notes weren't sounding on every/nearly every print. Would hate to find out my print was a fluke.

I'm working on getting those in tune now (V14 just finished printing) so I'm hoping to have those fixed in the next, possibly final, version... but the ocarina keeps ending up airy every time I try to get those last notes in tune/closer to in tune, so I'm doing a lot of voicing tweaking and trying to understand why it's happening.

Hey Karuuv, after you angled the mouthpiece, I noticed the airway points directly at the righthand thumbhole now, which may be the issue with the airy/flat E note. and then subsequent issue with the F afterward. Just maybe?

Oh no, I really hope that's not it, I really liked the angled mouthpiece but haven't been able to figure out how to angle the voicing without absolutely ruining the geometry.

I did re-tweak the windway pipe in the mouthpiece to try and make sure there wasn't an angle on the air-path in a later version, but not sure which one. Might have been 12? Attaching a picture of how it looks currently.
I had been "Testing" it recently by running water through the windway at a high enough pressure to see it shoot out and it seemed to be hitting the voicing edge in the center, but maybe water just isn't similar enough to be a good test?

I might re-straighten one on a failed attempt and see if that fixes it.
Thanks for helping look into it :) I really appreciate it.

Ahhhh i see what you are saying now. I should have inspected the model.
Ill be sure to print one and actually play it before try to give any more feedback!

I re-worked the inner windway again, because after I looked at it more there were some things about it I didn't like, which I think may have affected the direction of the stream slightly. Maybe. No idea.

Version 17 is up, with a sound sample. The voicing is now modeled to be as close as I can get it to my Clay ocarina, as I figured they had to have a reason for the shape they used, right?
Might have made it worse, not better - I really can't tell anymore.
Had a few difficulties with the microphone during the song recording which caused that weird "background static" sound during it. Not sure why, but it's a cheap 8 dollar microphone so I can't say I'm surprised :)

It should definitely be more in tune, at least. I think the only note that's out of tune is the top one is a bit flat still.

OOOoooooh!! I can't wait to try this!! (I can't even watch the video as I'm at work)
I didn't know you were going to work on it Karuuv or I would have gotten with you!!

After V1 I didn't expect to keep working on it but it's honestly kind of addicting.
I'm on Version 11 and it's still not right. Every time I try to get it closer to in tune it loses the high notes again.
V10 and V6 sound the best so far I think, but V10 has only been printed once so not positive how consistent it is.

It certainly took over my life for weeks on end!!
Keep up the hard work! I can't wait to try one

Uploaded a Version 10 sound sample as well - after hearing it recorded, I lost the high notes more than I thought on that model.
https://youtu.be/FJdEca6Ykgg
Version 13 will be getting tested tomorrow, if it passes it'll be up shortly thereafter :)

hey, nice work!

You should add a video showing how the ocarina sounds!

Planning to do so, but I wanted to wait until I was finally done tinkering with the model :)


Here you go!
https://youtu.be/6W6-l9NYwsU

Well, when are you gonna release the .38 model i need to play it now!

V2 is up - high notes are somewhat more stable but low notes are a bit 'off' I think - I didn't change the distance of the voicing, I changed the width of it to match the clay ocarina I have (Just got calipers, so I was able to do some measurements)

Going to keep trying to improve it, as well as angle the mouthpiece to make it more comfortable to hold while playing.

Hopefully soonish, in the mean time - it looks like another user also corrected the model for high notes (though he used the squared voicing model it looks like):
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2755765
I printed it and it sounds great! Air notes are a little airy on the one I printed, but I had printing issues (My fault.)

Updated 12 Hole Ocarina
Comments deleted.

This one fully work :) but still need a little tweak :D

I agree, the second one I printed has airy-er high notes than the first. Still more hit or miss than I'd like.
I think it's because I tried to soften the volume - I should have just made the voicing window .38 inches instead of the .365.

Looking forward for your great work :)

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