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DDeGonge888

[1.5.1] 3uP - Metal H-Bot Upgrade for QUBD Two-Up

by DDeGonge888 Jun 6, 2014
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Hello! I built your printer on ramps, and can not find the firmware under ramps. Maybe you know where you can download Marlin for a 3UP printer ??

The firmware is marlin but it is meant for the printrboard. You should be able to use the same firmware on a ramps board as long as you change in the firmware the motherboard selection to reflect the ramps. Some of the pinouts may change as well. It would be best to grab a fresh copy of ramps marlin and then just copy parameters over from the firmware I provide.

I've been running around in circles trying to solve an issue I've had since my first print.

When the Y axis is moved, I get a very slight movement in the X axis. When the X axis is move, there's also a slight movement in the Y axis. It's noticeable when moving the carrige in manual control, but it's most noticeable when attempting to print something square. When printing a 2cm cube (or any other part), the part will come out with a very noticeable skew. All of the parts used are directly from the BOM, I've tried new steppers, Firmware, swapping rods and bearings, new electronics, and reassembling to double check that everything is square.

The most frustrating part is being able to print beautifully, unless it requires a square or a round circle.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Can I expand the printable area with longer extrusions, rods and belt?

No. I built that and the longer rods are way to compliant. If you want a larger printer build something else. I'm working on a larger printer that uses Hiwin rails.

Thank you for the quick reply :) Just one more question, the print quality on your 3up with longer rods it's so bad?

Didn't get there. It is so bad I could easily move the Z-axis around, the Y movement back and forth, and the X-gantry back and forth, up/down and the twisting by more than 20 degrees in the center. I'm not kidding.

If you want a nice big machine there are other options. I'm reusing my extrusions and parts and building a printer based on this design:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/90025904@N04/albums/72157665872504001

When I get further along I'll post more details. I lurk in this group:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/3dprintertipstricksreviews

Yeah the 3uP was never meant to be expanded, the current size of it was hitting the limits of the parts. For large printers, the best way to go is with linear rails or with v-slot extrusions and wheels. Linear ball bearings and bushings don't work so great when you get too large, and the hbot kinematics definitely were not meant to get that big. Corexy or bust.

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Can anyone provide examples of the print quality they've gotten out of the 3Up?

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Are all of the 1.5.1 parts oriented in the correct position for printing, or should/can some be printed in another orientation to have better support to avoid bridging? Is it recommended to print any of these with support material?

I know that some parts will need layer strength in one direction over another, but I would rather figure this out while I can still print parts (before dis-assembly and rebuild).

Thanks!

They should all be oriented in the way they should be printed, but the only parts that absolutely must be printed in their current orientation are the y sliders. The rest could be reoriented if you wanted but I can't guarantee it will be as strong as it should be depending on the parts and orientations!

Sounds good! I'm using some support material to help make the prints as correct as possible in their original orientation. I figure it will be easy enough to drill out or file any support material that doesn't snap off, rather than have terrible prints.

I'm noticing that the taller pieces (like the xy bearing and xy motor pieces) have a tendency to have slight horizontal shift in layers. I've noticed this is far more pronounced when my x gantry pulley set screw comes loose or the belt shifts in the teeth of my extruder carriage when I first assembled my printer. For these pieces, will minor defects (a horizontal shift of maybe a millimeter or less) make this part unusable, or should they be fine for me to at least print out a new set of parts on the 3up?

I don't suppose you would have a spare set of printed parts for the 3up on hand available for purchase? Thanks for your help and replies!

If anybody needs the metal extrusions, corner brackets etc I have 3 sets. Was building them for somebody who backed out. Willing to let go of the hardware for less than the cost of buying it yourself from Misumi. Not to mention no leadtime as I can ship it out quickly. Also have some RAMPS boards etc. If you're looking to upgrade your TwoUp to the 3uP I highly recommend it. Just shoot me an email.
blue3dllc@gmail.com

Why are all the STL files zipped? this prevents from viewing in Thingiverse :(

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There are three "bed nut holders" files, 21mm, 23mm, and unspecified. I'm planning on using the stock MDF bed with the basalt HBP. Which bed nut holders should I print? Thanks.

Hi!

I'd be glad if someone has an answer for the original question, as I am also at the point of starting to rework my Two Up (basalt) into the 3up, and am unsure about the bed nut holders.

Thanks,
Marco

If you are using the standard basalt bed from qubd you can just use the 4 unlabeled bed nut holders. The other 2 sizes are for people with an e3d hot end.

I just finished building this and so far I'm extremely happy. I was able to work out mounting my stock basalt HBP without using hte printed bed nut holders. I had to modify the steps/mm for all motors in the firmware, as they didn't seem to be changed when I flashed the board with the linked firmware. There's still a couple minor issues stemming from poor quality prints off the old printer, but overall I'm extremely satisfied.

Thank you, DDeGonge888, for creating this wonderful solution for the (steaming pile of number) TwoUp that I had before.

How much was your total cost in the end?

I might have forgotten to include something, but I think I ended up spending around $230 for upgrade. And that's taking into account slightly higher quality radial bearings (the ones from the BOM were 0.1mm too small on the ID), and things like Kapton and aluminum tape which I only used a small portion of. I printed all the pieces myself and reused the stock HBP.

Oh wow that's pretty good! DId you get acme screws too or just regular threaded rods?

I'm pretty sure I got the ACME Lead Screws that are currently in the BOM. The pair cost me just over $50 after shipping. The parts from Misumi were around $85; $14 from Trimcraft, and ~$60 for the rest of the items from Ebay.

Well it's different for me since I buy in bulk but for an individual to purchase all the parts for the upgrade kit I would say it would be around $250-300.

250-300 is very reasonable but i am able to get the price down to 98$. IKR!! I have upgraded my twoup the the qubd threeup and i am planning on using the two acme rods and nuts already supplied. Im fine with cutting the rods. thats already 50$ gone. 2020 Corner brackets expensive but made with metal. I will be printing mine. bamm 25$ gone. I will print the belt pullies. Bam 20$ gone. I already have 608zz or you can get 16 for 8$ on amazon. my printer now is already really upgradedd e3d lite6 hotend belt tensioners lcd texas instruments drivers. But wow thats amazing. I could build your printer for 98$. Great design with not that much parts.

what about the metal frame?

What about them? Can you print them? No, you can't with any printer. They're metal lol.

no... I mean where do you get it and how does it cost

From http://us.misumi-ec.com/, all the information about the build can be found on the forum page linked in the main description of this project.

Can you will be able to print the whole 3up upgrade part with a two up when finished?

All of the parts are small enough yes, but you have to make sure you get good quality prints with no ribbing and you also have to make sure that your prints are very accurate to avoid issues with the final assembly.

Hi,
really like your build. I was thinking about building something similar.
Would you consider opening up your license for commercial use?

To be honest the huge amounts of licenses confuse me so I would have to do some research before changing it. If you just want to modify the design to use for yourself that is fine, you can even publish it as long as you give credit. I just don't want other people to commercialize my design and start selling it or something similar to it for profit.

Hi, thanks for you reply. Indeed the licensing is a jungle allright :-)
I would like to build a printer that I would like to sell to others, but it would be different than yours. Your build however would give me a nice base to start from. I would give credits of course, but if you don't want your design to be used commercially than I will respect that and look for other designs or make one myself.

Sorry thought I had replied already. You can certainly take inspiration from my design and if you wanted to make your own you could make it to look or perform very similarly, however I just ask that you do not use the solidworks models I provided directly. I'm all for keeping the design open sourced to the community, but I draw the line at people taking all of my work just to make a quick profit. Sorry!

Additionally I don't trust Makerbot or their websites as you could easily be an employee of theirs trying to get me to change my license so that Makerbot could steal more community innovations in 3d printing for their own printers without providing compensation. I really doubt this is the case but you can't be too careful :)

Hi, I sure understand your point and I will respect that. I certainly am not looking to rip anybody off. I want to develop a new kind of extruder and want to put my efforts into that and not so much into the rest of the frame and setup.
Good luck with your efforts!

Could you check the files for 1.5.1? Looks like they are all SLDPRT files

Thanks

I noticed the same thing.
Both the Source and STL ZIP Files are the same... all SLDPRT Parts.

Sorry about that, its fixed now!

Great job!
I currently run a modified DaVinci 1.0 and although it's robust enough for now I wanted to change things up a bit.

I stumbled onto your upgrade while pondering my own printer build.

Your upgrade definitely improved structural rigidity over the original 2-up for sure!
I hadn't even known about the 1 or 2 up until I found your work.
That gem would have certainly fit better in my budget back then when I bought this unit especially after all of the work and expense involved to update it.

Are you still taking orders on a kit?

Although I can print the plastic bits myself, having the components already designed and selected certainly speeds up things when trying to scratch build a machine.

I do realize since I haven't got a 1 or 2 up I will need to source the Z axis screws, Linear and other bearings and of course the electronics..

I have much of what I need already, i.e RAMPS, Heated bed, E3Dv6 ..

I'm assuming this has the same build area as the 2-up since you are using the rods and screws from it.

Again, great work!

hey, i have a da vinci 1.0 aswell ( heavily modded) and was going to do something similar to what this guy did except for the da vinci. the printer works good for now, but it is so damn ugly! love this guys design!

I am still taking orders but there is a very long waitlist and I'm backordered by about 6 months at the moment. The 3uP doesn't re-use the threaded rod from the one-up and two-up, just the linear motion hardware, electronics, extruder/hot end, and 2 bearings. The build area is significanly bigger than the two-up (two-up is 175x175x125 theoretically, but that is almost impossible to get, where my 3uP is 205x195x200 which is easily achievable.)

What fan bracket are you currently using?

Currently I'm not using one, there is barely any space in there to mount a fan bracket so I'm still working on finding a location that doesn't restrict movement in anyway, but it prints just fine with no fan, overhangs could probably be a little bit better but other than that I've had no problems.

I've got a small blower style fan (50x50x15mm) which allows for a little more compact assembly. Perhaps this is a solution for the space problem? I'll have a look at this and perhaps design a solution that I can share with you.

Ah nice! I've been looking for a cheap blower fan for a while because I figured that would make it easier to incorporate but I was unable to find one small and cheap enough. If you do make a design and know where to source a blower fan that would be really awesome!

I've almost completed all parts for the 3UP. Even though I printed with PolyMakr PolyMax, which is supposed to be tougher than PLA I'm not yet happy with the strength of some parts. I'd like to reprint a few parts in ColorFABB XT which is a great and strong material.

Since I don't want to waste too much material and perhaps not all parts need great strength, could you tell me what parts would benefit from being printed strong and rigid?

Obviously the 100% infill parts are on this list, but do you have any recommendations as to which parts I should reprint?

The parts you want to be the strongest are y slider a1/a2/b1/b2/d1/d2 and x slider a/b. Depending on how they came out, you may not have to reprint all of those, they are just the ones that rely most on their strength for the printer to work well. Mainly, you want the torsional strength of y slider a1/a2 to be really good along the z axis (when in orientation for printing), and you want the others to just be pretty rigid in general.

Regarding the firmware, I viewed your tutorial on Youtube and noticed you mod the Arduino for the files to accommodate the hardware. I intend to use the Arduino and RAMPS 1.4, do I need to change anything in the firmware to get it to work?

Yes you will have to enable the corexy mode which is commented out by default and you will likely have to mess around with the values for the steps/mm and the max build size. You only have to change very basic values but the problem is finding them in the jumble of the firmware.

Your STEP Output works like a charm - I can now read it all into my Rhino!!!!!

Thanks

I came up with a suggestion just now as I was leveling my printers bed.

Having thumbscrews holding the bed would simplify bed leveling since you'd no longer need an allen key to adjust. Although these might obstruct valuable printing area, you might be able to work around this by putting them under the bed, so you adjust the bed leveling from below.

You will easily find a lot on eBay!

Just a small thought you might want to consider implementing!

I have thought about inverting the nuts and bolts like you said but I don't think I would be able to do so very easily with my acrylic bed, plus the ends of the bolts sticking up might be too high and could possibly cut down on the usable print area. Putting the nobs on the top would be good but again it cuts down on the printing area. I may look into these in the future but for now I think using an allen key is fine, anyway I rarely have to adjust it on my printer so it isn't a big deal having to get it out once every week or two!

I am very love your design, good job, finally 1.4 released, as your experience, Hbot or CoreXY more suitable for 3D printer?

Thanks! And I have never made or used a corexy but from all I know I'm sure that would be better quality and speed, the problem being it is more complex to design and set up.

I don't have SolidWorks but I can imagine having to do a save as STP while in the top of the assembly will put the entire assembly out as STP. (just a thought to make things go faster)

Sorry I have been very busy lately. I tried doing that from the assembly but it only allows me to save all of the components as solidworks part files or save the entire assembly as a single STEP, which I don't think will be very helpful. I will try to get those files uploaded as soon as I can, but school work has been crazy with midterms coming up.

A single stp is good too. It will nest the entire assembly as groups . In any event, my build is moving on slowly!!!

Well in that case I uploaded the file, let me know if that will work for you!

to DDeGonge888

If it's not too difficult - can you please save the entire assembly of 1.4 in STP format. This way one can see the entire assembly without having solidworks (edu) installed on their PC. STP format is quite easily read by many 3d programs (like Rhino, that I have).
Thanks for your help and your design is quite impressive.

Thanks
Altarke

Sure can do! It does take some time as it requires me to go through each file individually and save as a step format, but it isn't too bad. I'll try to get that done today or tomorrow.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could adapt the bed to tackle the RepRap HeatBed with 3 point leveling, I have a MK3. http://reprap.org/wiki/PCB_Heatbed

Well certainly! That's just a matter of adjusting some dimensions. What size bolts are you using?

PCB Heatbed MK3 is made for M3 bolts. In this article they use M3x40 http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRapPro_Mendel_heatbed_assembly

Got it! I'll make that modification later this week or next weekend, I'm swamped with school work and with organizing 3up orders at the moment!

How did this go? I'm wondering which bed nut holders I should print.

The parts have been uploaded, they are separate from the main part folders and labeled MK3 bed nut holders.

That's great! What are the different heights for?

The side of the bed closest to the front sags slightly lower than the back (which is normal and does not result in off-square prints like on the two-up) so putting longer posts on the front offsets that.

I'm really sorry I didn't get around to it yet, I was very busy the past few weeks. I will try to design and upload them either Monday or Tuesday. Sorry for the delay!

Thanks for you reply:

The should be no problem with the Arduino+RAMPS 1.4 and the marlin FW , right?

Altarke

Nope should be fine, that's almost exactly what I'm running!

Thanks for your quick reply, I look forward having the whole assembly so I can view the printer from any dir and start planning the actual build.
... I was wondering about the firmware, there is a gui driven FW maker on the Repetire web site where one can input the physical traits of the printer and the program will do the rest. I like it because I already used this setup with the Delta printed I built a year ago. My question is - will it work with your printer?

Thanks
Altarke

Well as long as the firmware is compatible with your board there should be no problem doing it with my printer. Just make sure the firmware supports a corexy setup. Just for reference, I'm running marlin firmware.

Love your design and I want to make one H BOT 3D printer like it. I have some questions, like:
1.Where and how many end stops do you use in the design, from what I can see there seem to be only 2 end stops - one for X and the other for the Y -how does it work?

  1. Is there a complete design model that one can see how everything is assembled? it would be so helpful if such model exists.

Thanks
Altarke

v1.4 will have a solidworks assembly file when it is released. I originally hoped to release it today, but I did not have enough time to test it yet so it will be delayed by a few days. Also, there are 3 endstops in the design. The z endstop is hidden inside the piece "z bracket c1" or c2, I forget which one

I was able to find all the hardware in my country expect for the closed looped GT2 belt.
The only lengths that I'm able to find is: 760mm or 1350mm. Is there any change they might work?

Thanks

I don't think you'd be able to use the 760 as it's too short but you could probably get away with the 1350 by using some more pulleys to use up the extra belt length.

There are no solidworks assembly file in the source .zip, may i have your updated file?

The assembly file has been broken for a while but I am fixing it and it will be included in the v1.4 package which I plan to release in about a week.

Thats great,I am looking forward your new release.

Will Stefanburger's bowden adapter fit on the carriage for this build?

No because this printer has 2 horizontal rods where the original two-up has 2 vertically oriented rods. Also, the spacing is different on this than on the two-up.

I´m having a really hard time printing the z slider C. The small walls dont´t come out at all or are very fragile.
Is there coming a lot of stress on this part or is it not that important?

The part you are talking about does not exist, do you mean x slider c or y slider c?

Sorry, I meant x slider c.

Ah okay, if it is the side walls of the hexagon part that is okay. Depending on the size of your nozzle, these may not even be printed at all but that is okay it will still work fine. As long as you can fit an m3 nut in the spot and it won't rotate it will work.

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