Turbine Rotary Tool 60,000 rpm

by RichMac Apr 19, 2013
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This is how Dentist drills should be designed...

It is a great idea.
Shaft and rotor are glued together, right?

I wonder if you could scale it down and drive a tiny generator made from neodymium magnets and copper coils ?
It could be used as electrical generator for 5Volt applications like cell phones or battery charging or so?
Anybody thinks that could work ?

Hello, what infill density should I use to print the pieces in abs?

Awesome, I used this base for an industrial need. this change works. I'll share it with you soon. This would not have been possible without Richard's initial contribution. WELL DONE

Wow, extremely cool. I work on aircraft turbine engines and their power is not to be underestimated! Looking forward to adapting this to my mini shop vac. Thanks!

Dremel has similar tool already.

Read further back in the comments here...

^ ^^^^^^LoL wow at that

Yeah but that's not the point.... ;D

can you upload a file with all parts?

They are all here I think. Let me know if any problems.

I don't have a 3D printer but I want this. Can I buy the parts online?

Nah. This is comprised of STL files, meant for slicing for 3d printers. Unless you are willing to spend about 50$ to have a company print it for you, you need to get your OWN 3d printer.

@DevWolf It looks a lot like the Hatchbox Transparent Blue I used on my Glacial Pen Caddy.

Glacial Pen Caddy

What brand is that blue PLA? And is it opaque or transparent?

yip, that's because the author of this file used the CC license with attribution, not CC license not for commercial use. :v

Will it work as a suction fan? I mean, instead of using air to power a rotary, use the rotary to suck out milling residues out of the milling plane... Do you believe it will do? I know, I will ahve to mount it in the opposite direction to invert the airflow and collect the flow in atube delivering the dirt away, but I'm more concerned about the suction power... isn't this designed to maximize rotation speed vs airflow? Am I not looking to inverse equation?

Pretty much an EDF (Electric Ducted Fan).

The rotor geometry inside would need to be changed. I'm working on updating the rotor geometry to obtain more speed. I'll also try to work on one that that works on the reverse principle. I am trying to work on the principle of compressible flow to achieve this,

That is so cool i might print one myself

Where can i buy parts for it

I wonder if you can make it smaller to fit my shop vac nozzle. Then you would get some ridiculous rpms! I would love to see it done! what do you think? I could also play with the size because it is probably too small to fit a conventional turbine right now.
My nozzle: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:433080

Ultra High Velocity Shop-Vac Nozzle

uhh dont we have 3D printers so that we can make parts to fit the part we need and the vacuum nozzle?

where can i find the spacers and shaft?

anyone know what i can do t find it on ebay? amazon? B&Q

Did you finaly find it? i am also interested

anyone kno where ic an get the metal shaft and thesmall add ons to it? l

im gonna try to print these genious turbine with my B9Creator.. then make lost-form metalcasts from them later.

is any chance to made an connector for an airbrush compressor.

does it increase suction? im looking to mount one on a motorbike carburettor (forward facing intake) - kindof like a bolt-on supercharger...?

You would need to drive the turbine with an electric motor to increase the airflow into your motor. This could be a really neat project, but hard to calculate the size and speeds etc do it right.
Many years ago I fitted a supercharger to my car, but got the pulley ratios wrong. The power was phenomenal, but only a short time before the pistons melted.
Good luck, have fun!

Rich, Excellent design. Always wanted to build a gas turbine. I scaled it up for the 608 bearings and it is an animal in ABS. So far I have not been able to spin it to failure. Would it be possible to post the back housing Solidworks file? My dependencies failed on conversion. I had major (known) issues slicing it with slic3r failing to connect the blades to the body at the start of the print. Kissslicer worked but the skins were blobby. Working on Skeinforge now....

Sorry cant send any files now, I'm away from home for a few weeks.
Let us know if your gas turbine project goes, great idea, but heat is a problem. Need an affordable titanium printer!

I thought you guys might get a kick out of this: if you scale this up to 1.5x, 608 bearings will snap in to the case perfectly and the smaller bearings you can salvage out of old printers will also snap in perfectly into the central stator. Now, after you are done, go cast it in Aluminum and use this as the turbine stage of a small turbojet when coupled with a centrifugal turbine found elsewhere on the 'verse. I printed mine on a Solidoodle and it came out super nice. Just remember to use Aquanet to keep everything on the heat-bed. Now if I can just find someone to cast the parts in metal and get a pair of combustion chambers done....LOL

Metal casting is extremely easy, depending on the application. For this, don't break the bank. Attach it to a rod and dip it in a thin mix of plaster of paris. ONLY DO ONE THIN COAT LIKE THIS. let this coat dry. Do 3 more coats, but pour a coat of sand over each layer while wet. This gives channels for water to escape. This is a VITAL step. After the last coat, heat the mold to 400+ and melt out the plastic. Keep the mold at 400+ for about 2-4 hours to get all the water out. cool it slowly, to prevent it from becoming brittle. Next, bury it in sand up to the hole left by the rod. Place a ceramic pot plant pot (I cant remember what they are called) over the hole. You will note a hole in the center of the ceramic pot. Almost like I planned it that way, huh? Put a thin sheet of aluminum foil over this hole and fill the rest with thermite. (Thermite is composed of finely crushed aluminum and iron oxide (rust) powder. Many recipies are readily available online.) Once the pot is filled, light it with a fuse, or something that will put distance between you and it. It will throw sparks over 8 feet, so be careful not to start fires. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES are you to spray the metal itself with a fire extinguisher. It will explode and shower you with molten metal. Not fun.
The end result will be a near perfect copy of your turbine in nearly pure cast iron. It will handle high temps, and lots of rough handling.
If you are interested in this kind of thing, check out http://backyardmetalcasting.combackyardmetalcasting.com and go to the forums.

Now that is just brilliant. There's another turbofan here that I tried to print and actually sent some of the compressor stages to Shapeways and they came back SUPER nice.....but this turbine, it's so beautiful, I think it's far more practical for play. Thanks for the info. I'd love to cast this and anything else I can get my hands on!

imagine hooking it up to an air compressor, with a few modifications you could do crazy things, i think air compressors would provide more power...

It says not to print "the body". Can someone tell my what part that is? To me, the body would be the housing, but it doesnt spin.

i'm wondering this as well.

I have an old dremel that literally died on me a few years ago but I paid too much for it to just throw it away. now I know why I kept it. Parts! I'm now interested in figuring out how to build this into a CNC machine. Sucks the dust up as it's carving... so much to print, so little filament.

This is really cool I'm just finishing up my printer and this is going to be one of my first projects.

Turbine lathe anyone?

Someone who has better CAD skills than me should try (maybe using the 3 rotor version to add more torque) to convert this into a printable lathe.
The other printable lathes on thingiverse are cool, but this seems like it could be a lot more functional.
I could try to do it, but it would likely not turn out so well...

You do not want to run a lathe at 60000 RPM. You will probably need 100:1 ratio gearing.

could you make a more precise assembly tutorial? it'll help me a lot :)

The video shows the assembly ok, make sure the rotors are assembled the correct way. Let me know where you are getting stuck, I'll help.

problem solved :)

I have a simple question. What is the best rod material to use that you can still use a die to cut threads and reduce chances of rust?

The ideal shaft material is free machining mild steel. I turned down a old bolt, very tough with a bad finish. Aluminium is great to machine, also some brass alloys. If you have a choice, the specs normally show the machining qualities.

I am working one one that is connected to an old norelco beard trimmer. 2013 Copyright ME, All rights reserved.

Anyone had any success printing this with a 0.5mm nozzle? Care to share slicer used and relevant settings?

I'm struggling to get a good slice without decreasing the set extrusion width to something much less than the nozzle diameter (which will usually result in a bad print).

I did it :) one thing is key - increase the nozzle diameter setting in the down to 0.2 - 0.3 mm... to play with extrusion width is more or less useless! take care of the first layer thicness setting - should be a bit higher than nozzle dia... otherwise Slic3r shows a missleading errormessage.

Using Slic3r 9.9 which is really crabby with filigran structures.
I'm working successful with a 5mm nozzle but a settung of 0.4 for nearly all I'm printing.

I uploaded 3 Verions of Slic3r Settings for PLA and ABS for you here http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:91256http://www.thingiverse.com/thi...

have fun

Turbine 2.0

Doesn't sucking the swarf through the turbine chew it up pretty fast?
...not that it would be hard to replace, or anything, but still...

I don't think the dust would damage the blades much. But I found the bearings are a problem
I bought non contact sealed bearings, they have a higher speed rating because there is no seal rubbing. But the vacuum sucked all the grease out, and replaced it with dust! Didn't last long!

anyone know if this would actually increase suction on the vacuum?

Windmills do not work that way! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQg8JKo_3ZQ)https://www.youtube.com/watch?....

Turbines don't give you free power, they drain power from the air rushing past in order to spin the rotor.

Don't ruin people's dreams with your laws of thermodynamics and your entropy!

has anyone used one of these and tried to use it as a router on MDF ? I wonder if it would have enough power to get through the MDF and the vacuum could suck up the dust.

Sounds like enough people want a Dremel-compatible rig. I know I do. I'd look into sourcing a machine shop to produce a run of say 100 kits if somebody were to add a solid spec sheet for each of the parts to the dowloadable files list.

Thanks RichMac. This is what the buzz is all about.

Has anyone used E-Machineshop? They seem to have the right idea, but I gave up getting a quote as I didn't want to learn their cad package.

Really the most amazing Thing I found so far. Congratulations for this !

I'm just learning to get it out of my PRotos with a 0,5mm Nozzle - tricky to find a setup in Slic3r 9.9 to get a reasonable slizing quality.

Found Layerheight 0.2 and Nozzlediameter 0.25 brings pretty results with Slic3r...and on the Printer with ABS too :)

@RichMac: any chance to get the CAD Files ?

Have some Ideas to modify but do not have a tool to work on/with STL..

Thank you for posting this tool

In my experience, speed is more of a factor in print quality than layer height with prints that have/need higher detail.

A print like this with .4mm layer height printed with 20-40mm/s perimeter speeds will generally come out much cleaner and nicer than a .2mm layer height with speeds at 60-80mm/s

in general you are right.

I did it with .2mm and ~28mm/s using ABS with around 254 °C
the reason is that with higher speed and/or lower Temp I got the Part but the layers where not really "baked" together and the Parts are broken very easily. The layers can be removed separately by using my fingernails :( using Temps below 250 °C.

Unfortunately my PRotos has a Teflon Extruder insert which has problems when temperatures higher than 250 °C for l,onger periodes... need to enhance this somehow.
The Results with PLA are not satisfying on the blades so far. ABS is perfect and more stabile.
currently I'm thinking about an new ergonomic housing with a special intake fo a good Handling.
However - this Thing is absolutely fascinating for me.

254C?!?! Wow, that's hot.

What filament are you using? My ABS would burn at that temp. I generally run 235 for the first layer, and drop to 229-230.

You might be able to print faster and still get cleaner prints at lower temps, and can fix the layer issue by doing an acetone bath for 10-15seconds..

Hmm.. 229-230 ist my max Temp for PLA ....

there are differnt possible reasons for this discrepance..

  • differences in the measuerment...?
    I never measured the Temp with an separate sensor - so 255C is the value which my printer sensor and electronics are showing me.
    I use 3mm ABS Filament - this is taged with a label which says "max Print Temp 260" ....

It's most certainly differences in measurements. My Solidoodle is set to 200c for black ABS (which needs the highest), and in most other systems it wouldn't extrude. That's because the thermistor is on the outside of the heating block and measures much lower than recessed thermistors.

It's always a good idea to get temperature advice from those that have the same type of printer/extruder you do.

I printed in PLA on the Rep2, 0.4 nozzle, 0.25 layers for the housings, 0.15 for the rotors.

All my parts were very light, I only just found out I was using Fill% of 0.5 instead of 50!

I have uploaded the Solidworks parts files. 'Front Housing' (actually it is the back housing) contains the master sketches, this part is then inserted into the other parts so they access these sketches. This dependancy may fail when converted. Notice how I sketch the required size first, then offset the lines to allow for the peculiarities of the printer.

Making one now out of ABS so far it is working well.

Is there any way to make a design of this turbine that would fit into an old dremel shaft? I think it would be amazing to be able to change that old dremel i don't use anymore into a vaccum turbine tool

Now theres a good challenge! Rechlesstryg turned down an old Dremel shaft, but still needed a lathe.
What about using the the whole body of the Dremel, including the housing and bearings? If you took out the electrical stuff, you would have room for the turbine rotors and stators, and let the air flow thru the existing cooling vents, enlarged. Just hook the vacuum hose to the back.

I work construction at hospitals. This would be great for rotozipping drywall.I just
printed one but now have to work on a shaft. Can't wait to try it out!

that could eaily spin a 9x5 prop at around 15krpm..could make 30 ounces of thrust probably..worth a try? might take a while to spin up since the initial resistance would be high..would love to try and put one on one of my RC planes :D

With a motor driving a centrifugal compressor which would give a strong vacuum :)

Nice work.
I would use it to spin up children tops.
Every kid has access to a vacuum cleaner.
And the mothers would propably be happy if there boys work the vaccum cleaner.

Simply genious I tell ya! You should just figure a way to sell the shaft where the dremel bits fit in, let others print the rest (I'd buy that metal part strait away). You do realise you just created a dremel at the fraction of the cost and it's even better because it sucks away any dust that could damage the lungs. Indeed we might tweak the blades to lower the rpm a little (also this would increase torque woohoo!).

With just a small additional cylinder at the base with an adjustable hole in it you could make it so that you can even adjust the speed (making hole bigger -> slow down).

Also going for standard skateboard bearings would make it more accessible...
Still the idea is super, and you show it works just as good as any dremel ;)

I wonder why they haven't feature this design before..

I would think a simple adjustable vac break port would allow for adjustability on the rpm/torque curve. Dental air rotors have a high initial rpm but drop under load. Good for fine controle. For cutting through metal a direct drive brushless motor is better but for composite shaping and decay removal most use air rottor

I would think a simple adjustable vac break port would allow for adjustability on the rpm/torque curve. Dental air rotors have a high initial rpm but drop under load. Good for fine controle. For cutting through metal a direct drive brushless motor is better but for composite shaping and decay removal most use air rottor

As if my dremel wasn't loud enough... hahaha Thanks for the upload!

"Turbines have awesome power in a small package."

Actually, no, turbines have high RPM. And low torque.
And the power they output is pretty directly related to the power you're inputting (minus significant losses) ;)

Also, i'm pretty sure you can't patent the basis upon which the rotary tools used in dentistry have been operating for ages (granted, the direction of the air flow is different, but the operation is the same).

It's a neat idea, though, and looks to be useful for engraving and similar low-torque uses :)

With the air flow control handle on the Dyson you could control the speed.

Nice! It's got me thinking about other uses for vacuum powered turbines now, and I love it when someone's clever ideas do that.

awesome product Mac.. v cool... re the issues with heat.. you could change the dia of the impeller and flatten the blades out as well.. speed leads to friction.

I hope you realize that this project has the potential to become a very profitable product sold at home improvement stores. I would patent this, if you haven't already.

The best ideas should be in the public domain, makes a better world.

The only thing guaranteed about a patent is that you will keep pouring money into it. The Chinese will ignore it, and the big western companies could drag you thru the courts for years.

Open source is the go!

You can't patent it anymore, a patent is only possible if nobody ever has talked in public about it.

Actually, the law on patents states that the inventor has One Year to file a patent from the date of the inventions first public disclosure. After One year it becomes in the common domain. They offer a provisional patent which is essentially a written public disclosure to the patent office, and that gives you one year to file also.

This is probably patentable to some extent, and it always helps to have a patent.

can anyone say "FLOWBEE" !!!! Haha

Okay, but I think it's way different in Europe.

Exactly!...a 1 year grace.

That's 100% untrue.

Tell that to Apple and Samsung

I thought is was "first to file" now?

first to file doesn't mean you can ignore prior art.

Or existing patents. May want to look, I found at least three that would easily cover bits and pieces of this. As nearly as I can tell, the only unique bit of the design is that it's easily printable.

One will cut your hair. ;-)

Can't patent it now, its in the public domain

I hate to be a naysayer, although it is cool, But, that thing will have no torque. Lots of torque is required for a real tool. I suppose this will be ok if you want to take forever to grind something, or maybe a cut off bit. Maybe if you added plates, by alternating static plates and rotating plates, you would make it longer and give it more torque. I could see this for a dental drill design so it sucks up spittle and tooth parts , etc.

Actually, the torque is not too bad, and this design is the first try with no optimisation.
Cutting with the disc is interesting, it seems to have similar running torque to the Dremel, but is less likely to break the disc if it jams, as it has low stall torque and little inertia. Electric motors have about 7 x stall torque, which can cause tool damage or burning out.
The diameter, pitch and number of rotors could be adjusted to suit the torque and RPM for the tool.

This would be a great way to convert a 3D printer into a milling machine. The turbine is lighter than a Dremel which will mean less load on the stepper motors. With dust extraction too it would be ideal for things such as PCB milling.

Soooo... what would happen if you spin this the other way round add a brushless motor and stick it on the back of an rc plain? Cheap jet propulsion perhaps?!

it would not have enough propulsion force

Awesome, truly awesome.

Not just because it is a cool product but the selfless way you have locked this open for every one. I hope people here understand what you have done and emulate your example. This is how the open source conquers. Thank you.

Many thanks to all of you for your positive comments.

Thingiverse is awesome!

I think this is hands down the coolest thing I've seen on thingiverse. I'll build one and then try to work on the thermal problem. maybe making some of the parts out of machined PEEK or maybe even delrin? I'll have to talk to my buddy with an indexer on his mill, then aluminum would be workable. Maybe an aluminum part or two could dissipate just enough heat to stay away from critical points. Thank you so much for this! this needs to be the toolhead for a mill with built in dust collection!

You really need to produce these it's an awesome idea don't let someone steal it from you! I'm making one in a bit if I can find the metal parts for the sanding AND suction! I always have the problem sanding plastic especially and getting dust EVERYWHERE it's annoying and unhealthy, this solves the problem easily!

This is a fantastic idea, like all the best ones it's so simple.

I came across this on YouTube and had to come and find you, as this might be just the thing we need in our business.

Try shapeways they will print for you.

Amazingly obvious and probably efficient unless it is not extremely well printed...
Probably one of the smartest of the DIY tools I've seen that the industry may not want to produce :)
wow :)

I kind of want to try to design one of these using emmett's gear bearings, just for the heck of it

Hey RichMac, I work in construction and everyone I've showed your tool to wants one. The killer application for 3D printing may turn out to be selling the parts that can't be 3D printed. I would by at least a dozen, maybe more, of the metal shafts you used if the price is reasonable. How about a kickstarter campaign to make the first thousand of them.

Thanks for the enthusiasm!
I have just done this for fun, I have no commercial interest, and Australia is a long way from the action. There is a useful product here, why don't you give it a go? I looked at e-machineshop, they can make a number of parts and sell to other buyers, but I have no idea of price.

I could see this used for drilling nozzles. .25 and .35mm drills need very high speed. Great work, thank you.

I wish there was a I LOVE button.

I don't understand what is happening. Can someone explain it to me? What is spinning, how do you start it spinning (with that drill bit hanging out?), and how would you use something like this?

Amazing work, truly one of the best things I have seen printed. My hat is of to you Sir.

Did you machine the shaft for the rotary tool version? Or was it scavenged from an existing rotary tool?

I have a CNC lathe etc, so would love to create a shaft (Or multiple shafts if others wanted them) - would it be possible to get the drawings for the shaft in a more lathe friendly format than STL?

Many thanks for your kind words, I hope you have fun with it!

I made the shaft, the small thread was a challenge on my Chinese lathe, your CNC lathe which will be much quicker. Once the shaft and bearings are done, the rest of the project is easier and very rewarding.

I have added the drawing for the shaft and spacers which need to be machined. Dremel collets, nuts and 3-jaw chuck are available, so its best to stay with their odd thread size. I have extended the shaft to allow for possibly adding a 3rd rotor behind the back bearing. I intend to reduce the blade pitch to reduce the speed, but may need an extra rotor for more torque.

Its amazing that the future challenge is to slow it down!

Great idea. If you could integrate the vacuum feature (somehow) into milling machines, drill motors, wood routers, etc. every manufacture would be using it. The setup I often use now is to drag out the 'shop vac' then jimmy up an awkward arrangement of placing the vacuum nozzle as close to the tool head as possible with tape or clamps.

Yes, i think the turbine would be great for low-power machines, there's a lot of power in a small package, and many options to change the torque/rpm specs.
Years ago I designed a CNC machine for milling foam for packaging. The drive motor, dust control and 5-tool-changer was a challenge. Now I would integrate each tool with an optimised turbine and bearings and change the whole unit.

You sir have won the internet! I will be making one of these, as soon as possible!

I wonder if the design could be altered to cool the bearings (without sucking dust through them). Or perhaps some cooler-running bearings could be found. Ceramic balls with a very light oil or something.

Actually, I think the heat and bearing problems will go away if I reduce the blade pitch for only 30,000 rpm. This would more sensible for Dremel tools which are designed for that. But I don't know what that will do to the torque, there are so many variables, including blade pitch, rotor diameter, number of stages etc.

I am using a Ryobi 20L workshop vacuum, $60, 1250w, 150mbar suction

Hi! great project :) about decreasing rotation speed - consider increasing the diameter of turbine. this will cause lower velocity of air with the same volume flow ratio. and also - should slightly increase the torque which is very low for this kind of devices

How do you assemble it?

wow! very impressive.

Wow, that is impressive!